Yep, my father, who served in the USAF rarely wore the jacket and tie version of the uniform. That was for formal occasions.
Fixing the films....
- Thread starter Warped9
- Start date
I don't have a great knowledge of military service wear, but simply what I've seen in film and television seems to illustrate the everyday regular service wear is besically shirtsleeve and trousers. Wearing ties and jackets are for more formal situations. This was echoed on TOS, TMP and TNG with the tunic and trousers as standard duty wear and the shinier close fitting tunics as formal dress wear.
The uniforms from TWOK do indeed look more like dress wear and the overall styling is incongruous with Star Trek's far future setting and overall design approach.
The uniforms from TWOK do indeed look more like dress wear and the overall styling is incongruous with Star Trek's far future setting and overall design approach.
It's not really a perfect fit though. Assuming the pullovers (and the uniforms from TNG) are the equivilant of assignment fatigues, they really shouldn't have been wearing them off duty like in Ten-Forward or in the officers lounge-thing in TOS. Apparently the modern military are very strict about that.
Judging from the later movies, Starfleet of that era didn't have more than one uniform. During admirals meetings, trials etc where officers would wear their dress, everyone keeps on the Maroons. Kirk did have that fleece jacket on Regula, I suppose.
Judging from the later movies, Starfleet of that era didn't have more than one uniform. During admirals meetings, trials etc where officers would wear their dress, everyone keeps on the Maroons. Kirk did have that fleece jacket on Regula, I suppose.
We can allow for evolution of design as well as custom for the future. And, at least on the TV series, we have to allow for the real world concern of cost. And, in the films, would they bother making a collection of dress uniforms for one dinner scene in TUC particularly when it's widely accepted as the last film in the series?
It just wasn't well thought out for the films. For TMP they tired to apply some measure of logic to it, but it lacked the straightforward simplicity of what was seen in TOS. It didn't get really any better in TWOK on top of making for a change to something totally inconsistent with what came before. The straightforward and much more easily understood approach of TOS returned in TNG albeit with a teaking of colours.
It just wasn't well thought out for the films. For TMP they tired to apply some measure of logic to it, but it lacked the straightforward simplicity of what was seen in TOS. It didn't get really any better in TWOK on top of making for a change to something totally inconsistent with what came before. The straightforward and much more easily understood approach of TOS returned in TNG albeit with a teaking of colours.
The big flaw with the early TNG uniform was the fabric used because conceptually they were not unlike what came later in DS9 which was also a one-piece outfit.
The TOS uniforms as well as TMP and the later TNG uniforms were a reasonable extrapolation of what we see happening in fashion in general: attire getting simpler and somewhat more streamlined that evokes a sense of the future. But designing something that looks believable as something that could be worn in the future is tricky. Go back 300-500 years and ask someone what they think clothing could likely look like centuries down the road. In all likelihood the answer you would get would look nothing like what we wear today. Their worldview and experience is simply too far removed from what would come to shape contemporary fashion sense.
In extent when trying to design something futuristic you're walking a fine line between what the audience can accept because of our current perspectives and what could logically be extrapolated from what we have now. To some the TMP costumes look like pajamas and somewhat '70's leisure wear by today's standards, but in 300 years they could conceivably look completely normal. Same with the early TNG uniforms. 1970's fashion may look odd to people today, but at the time it was accepted as a reasonable evolution from what had come before. It has happened time and time again and will continue to happen.
It's my understanding that if you fly a desk they require you to wear the creased slacks(skirt optional for women), dress shoes and a tie when on duty/at your desk. The shirtsleeves or uniform tee and dungarees(or whatever they wear now) is for fieldwear only. Basically inside = dress up, outside = dress down. Unless you're in a parade.
Sure, that's today. But extrapolate into the future and you have room to speculate.
TMP
This is the one I'd make the most changes to. The story has a lot of problems. The crew is WAY too passive, just sitting on the bridge and reacting to things for most of the story. And the big "revelation" about V'Ger at the end just isn't interesting enough to justify all the buildup. I'd ramp up the tension between Kirk & Decker (it just sort of fizzles out in the film), inject more of the action & humor of TOS, and have Kirk & co. take a more active role in the story. And I'd either reconceptualize & recast Ilia or just cut her altogether.
And I'd dress in the crew in something besides feetie pajamas. A two-toned version along the lines of Kirk's Admiral uniform could work.
TWOK
Not too many changes here. I'd try to plug some of the plot holes, like the Reliant not noticing a missing planet in the Ceti Alpha system. I'd probably leave in the dialogue about Sulu becoming a captain, as that could be some cool foreshadowing for future films, and give him something to sacrifice in TSFS. And maybe boost the budget a bit.
TSFS
Most of my changes here would be with casting. First off, Kirstie Alley would repeat as Saavik, as I don't really care for Robin Curtis' portrayal.
Also, I feel that too many of the other characters are cast & directed to be idiots to make our heroes look good. Admiral Morrow needs to be older and have more gravitas (Honestly, I'd probably just bring in Brock Peters and introduce Admiral Cartwright a film early). "Mr. Adventure" is also too much of a stooge.
I'd like to see the Klingon bridge be something more like what we saw in ST:TMP and try to redress the TWOK torpedo room back to its original form. It'd also be nice if they kept the same Klingon bridge set for STIV.
TVH
I'd probably make the humor a bit less broad, as it doesn't hold up that great anymore. Alley as Saavik once again, and I'd probably have her accompany the crew back to the 20th Century.
I like Nicholas Meyer's idea of Gillian Taylor staying behind in the 20th Century to work to make sure that whales don't become extinct in the first place. I think that's better than the wish fulfillment of her following the crew back to the 23rd. It's a good message to send that utopia isn't going to just happen -- it's something we're all going to have to WORK for.
TFF
This is another one where I'd make a lot of changes. I agree with Warped 9 that we'd need to get rid of most of the stupid broad comedy, as it just doesn't work here. The comedy in TVH arose naturally out of the situation the crew found themselves in, but here most of it is at the characters' expenses, and it just makes them look foolish.
I'd probably get rid off the majority of the "finding God" aspect of the story, and make Sybok more of a dangerous fanatic on an insane quest. I think this movie would work better as more of a straight action/suspense story. That'd be a nice break from the TVH formula.
I'd give the Klingons a rest for a film, as they've gotten pretty played out by this point. I'd also get rid of Sybok being Spock's long-lost brother and stick with Shatner's original idea of Kirk, Spock, and McCoy having a falling out of some kind. That could be fertile material to explore. And I'd give Shatner a boost to the budget so that it could have decent effects.
TUC
My main change here would be changing Valeris out for Saavik (played by Kirstie Alley again, natch). It would make her character betrayal a lot more shocking, and would tie off her arc nicely. It would also make the "a lie? / an error." exchanges make a lot more sense, as it would call back to TWOK. I certainly loved what Kim Cattrall did in the film, but bringing Alley back would've been even better.
It might be interesting to have the "gathering of the crew" scenes back in, especially if Bibi Beech came back as Carol Marcus.
GEN
Ugh... This one is pretty much a mess. I'd probably just eliminate the Kirk/Shatner stuff altogether, as it just doesn't work. A straight TNG story would be better.
ST: V had significantly more money for effects than any of the previous three films. They just spent it poorly.
One of the fanon items that existed for years, and even I believed, was that The Final Frontier had a small budget.
Newp. Just poorly spent money.
Idle thinking.
I wonder what "The Wrath Of Khan" could have been like as an episode set in a hypothetical fifth season of TOS. Some of the elements could remain the same. An old flame of Kirk's has become an established scientist developing a truly advanced scientific device thats ready to be tested full scale. Khan and his people have been marooned for only three years at this point but they're faced with the same circumstances as in the film. The Reliant comes along not knowing anything about the Botany Bay and the Ceti Alpha system. A big difference would be that unless Chekov had since been reassigned then he couldn't be the one to recognize Khan. It really isn't necessary, but a past semi regular crewman could be used in Chekov's place--maybe DeSalle or someone else.
Hmm...
I wonder what "The Wrath Of Khan" could have been like as an episode set in a hypothetical fifth season of TOS. Some of the elements could remain the same. An old flame of Kirk's has become an established scientist developing a truly advanced scientific device thats ready to be tested full scale. Khan and his people have been marooned for only three years at this point but they're faced with the same circumstances as in the film. The Reliant comes along not knowing anything about the Botany Bay and the Ceti Alpha system. A big difference would be that unless Chekov had since been reassigned then he couldn't be the one to recognize Khan. It really isn't necessary, but a past semi regular crewman could be used in Chekov's place--maybe DeSalle or someone else.
Hmm...
For an hour episode, I'd have thought they'd cut out Genesis altogether. Just have Khan get his hands on another ship and give chase. Maybe the ship would already have the magic torpedo on it or something.
There would definately be less gore. The ear worms might make it, but the bloody slit throats and weeping burns wouldn't. Can't imagine they would have killed off Spock either.
There would definately be less gore. The ear worms might make it, but the bloody slit throats and weeping burns wouldn't. Can't imagine they would have killed off Spock either.
Posted this in another thread a while back...
Re the budget...
Source (link)
So, ST V got a significant budget bump over previous films, it's just not as much as Shatner wanted.
And that's what it's like in Star Trek and Star Trek Into Darkness with the two types of uniform shown.
Yes, ILM was busy with Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade and Ghostbusters II. Star Trek V would've gotten ILM's "C" team, so they went with Bran Ferren instead.
Ah, yes, Bran Ferren. The guys that seriously thought audiences would be impressed by an "unearthly glow" around a 747 that was achieved by scratching the emulsion off the film with a ball point pen. Check the climax of the film "Second Sight" if you don't believe me.
