Fixing the films....

[Orphalesion]

"Fixing" the films, eh?

TMP: Well that one was originally a series pilot and it shows. Very thin plot stretched with extended shots of special effects.
I think if they had put more emphasis on transhumanism here and made it actually clear in the movie that Decker was a transhumanist it would have been a better story. They also should have at least tried to keep Illia around and not replace her with a creepy robot so soon.

TWOK: The only thing I think they could have done without is that goofy "KAAAAAAHHHHHHN!!!11!!one!" scream.

TSFS: Better sets for the Genisis Planet, also how about we don't paint the Klingons as pure evil? I do think they shouldn't have stuffed David into the fridge; he and Saavik could have become recurring characters in the other movies.

TWH: Make a a different movie and not a timetravel comedy about saving the whales. Also, don't ditch Savvik. And remove that extra who asked the phenomenally stupid question if "whales attack people, like Moby Dick"

TFF: Kill it with fire.We didn't need another "sufficiently advanced alien" story.
Instead make it a movie about Nimbus III that also acknowledges the character development of the preceding movies.

UDC: Revising it a few more times and expanding Azetbur's character and role. We should have seen more of her (and by that I do NOT mean turning her into Shattner's love interest)

GEN: Kill it with Fire.

FC: Kill it with Fire, instead make a different Borg story without Time Travel or the Borg Queen. Remember that you have seven characters, not just two.

INS: Kill it with Fire.

NEM: A few more rewrites, filling a few plotholes, including Sela and giving a more expanded role to Donatra who was easily the most interesting character in that film. Don't shoehorn Worf into the plot.

 

[Maurice]

^^^By definition, extras are non-speaking roles.

 

[BK613]

One could write a book or two on this thread's topic.
Dumping the maroon band uniforms would be a chapter in and of itself, however.

 

[Warped9]

One could write a book or two on this thread's topic.
Dumping the maroon band uniforms would be a chapter in and of itself, however.

It certainly illustrates there is very little consensus among fans.

 

[Nerys Myk]

The color choice is one of the problem with the uniform. I've been playing around with that and find they look better using blues or greys.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

Whoah boy, lets see...

TMP
Most of what I'd change others have been mentioned elsewhere (timing/pacing issues). You can't really drop the Spock pre-plot as he's the counterpoint to V'ger's point. Really, only Spock can teach V'ger what it needs to know conceptually, and vice-versa. Spock is the one that shows V'ger how to look beyond pure logic and reason. Fusing with Decker is the means by which V'ger does that. If I dropped any character plot it would be Decker/Illia. The romance is a bit of a C-plot standard anyways. Dropping it puts the focus back on the issue of V'ger and it's lesson where it belongs.

WoK
I like this one pretty much as is. The one thing I'd "fix" is using the TOS tri-colors for the jackets and jumpsuits (the white undershirts are fine).

SfS
There is one major fix/change I'd make to this one and that's reworking the editing to make it clear who knows what when in terms of Spock's status. As it is, why is Kirk so set on going back to Genesis, when the help that McCoy needs is on Vulcan? Moving the material about discovering Spock on Genesis forward gives Kirk a reason for being fixated on getting back to Genesis. I'd also shoot and use the dropped scene about Uhura going to the Vulcan embassy to request assylum. The rest of the film plays fine.

TVH
In one phrase: "Dial it back, guys!" The humor is too OOT and forced. Keep moments like "Did you see that?" "No, and neither did you!", and "Is that a lot?" where the humor is organic to the situation. The crew-involved humor should come from the innocence/naivte about the 20th century (Checkov and the cop, "I think he did a little too much LDS...") Re-edit the aquarium scene to drop all the Kirk facepalming stuff. Don't even show Spock in the tank until after the woman says "Maybe it's singing to that man...", which also alerts Kirk as to where Spock vanished to. Play it straight, not broadly (looking at you, McCoy and Scotty). Go back to the earlier draft where Plexcorp and the scientist are the ones that did/will invent transparent aluminum, and Scotty knows it (which is why he chose them). Drop the humor entirely from the Checkov/Feds scene. Neither the time nor the place for laughs. Drop the material with the old woman's new kidney but keep all the McCoy commentary on 20th century medicine. If I were making it today and not then in terms of time period, put in a scene with the doctors discussing billing instead of a case and have McCoy make a comment about their twisted priorities. (I might even go so far as to throw a "McCoy"-ism at them "You're doctors, not accountants!").

The last part of the film was fine.

Oh, one more addition: bring back the "Saavik is pregnant" scene. It gives her a little additional character bit here, and would add a bit of "oomph" to how I'd do TUC.

TFF
If you're going to do the story, do it right or don't do it. Don't be afraid of making a statement that might be controversial. I would make it clear though, that the "God"-alien of Sha'ka'ree was passing itself of as God, not that it was God (or Satan).

The rest of it is just a matter of giving the film the budget to really do the FX up right. (The film looked too cheap).

TUC
Most of the film needs little or no change. Bring back the Col West scene. BIG change: it's Saavik, not "Valeris". Makes her betrayal all the more personal to Spock (and would have explained Nimoy playing him so openly angered by it). Get rid of the "sign off" bit.

GEN
Strengthen the "what might have been" Picard subplot. Give Kirk a more "active" death by having him be the one to clamp the rocket at the very last second and die as a result of the explosion rather than simply falling off a collapsing bridge.

FC
Not many changes I'd make to this one.

INS
Another one I'd leave basically alone.

NEM
Drop the whole "clone" thing with Shinzon. He's Reman. Sela, not Donatra. Lore, not B-4.

Ok, where to start for me?

TMP

Would ditch the whole fracking movie and make the Planet of Titans script instead-Star Trek isn't 2001.

TWOK

No too sure what to do about this one, other than not killing Peter Preston. Would also have included subplot about Scott being uncle of Preston, and subplot (from novel) about Preston being friends with Saavik. Khan's crew should have been as old as he is, or explanation given that said crew were sons and daughters of the other Augments (they were years younger than Khan himself.)


TSFS

Same here as with TWOK. Would not get rid of Enterprise being destroyed, as it was an old ship and needed to be retired. At least it got a good send off, and 'died' in battle rather than just being turned into scrap. Would change the popular music in the bar that McCoy goes to to electronica or something contemporary that would sound futuristic enough to be 23rd century music (and I'd also change the bar decor as well.)

TVH

Nothing wrong with the movie from what I could see, and it did make a lot of money and fans. There's nothing wrong with a movie that's mostly humorous. One change I'd make:

*Have Eddie Murphy as originally intended (Klingon Ambassador) or as a male version of Dr. Taylor, replacing her character (I'm sorry, but she wasn't that great.) Eddie's a lot more funnier than she is (and the swearing would be better.)

TFF

Scrap entire movie and bring in better script, perhaps something based on a Star Trek novel.

TUC

The Starfleet Academy movie that was proposed by Harve Bennett was a better idea. Too bad George Takei torpedoed it. Said movie would end with the entire cast together, then agreeing to sign the signatures together, as a way of ending the movie series.

GEN: Good as it is.

FC: Good as it is.

INS: Scrap the entire story, replace with new one about Dominion War and Enterprise-E's part in it, which would tie into...

NEM: Shinzon's plot wouldn't be about killing Picard, but would be about revenge on the Romulans for mistreating him as a Reman and as a human, and would also have a tie-in to DS9, wrapping up both stories.

 

[Warped9]

TMP

...Star Trek isn't 2001.

No, it's not, but that has never stopped people from making this off-the-cuff type of dismissive assertion of TMP as a 2001 wannabe. TMP wasn't trying to be 2001 either and anyone who knows the two films knows this kind of assertion doesn't hold any water.

 

[eyeresist]

TMP - Keep Wise as director but bring Spielberg in to edit. Make costumes and sets a bit more colourful. I see the crew in nice pastels while the sets are more silvery and blue.

TSFS - Don't let Nimoy direct. Bring back Kirstie Alley

TFF & TUC (to a lesser extent) - Don't fill them with lame jokes on the basis that TVH made money with comedy.

GEN - Try again, script writers; this doesn't make sense.

FC - Make the Borg much scarier.

INS - Needs different script, different director. Should not have been made, basically.

NEM - Cut Riker's fight with the Reman viceroy from the big battle scene. It completely saps the momentum of the movie.

Well Warner's character lasted longer in TFF than in TUC.

But Gorkon was more memorable . . . .

He played the Klingon chancellor who was dramatically assassinated, setting off the whole plot of the movie. Of course he was more memorable in TUC!

 

[Orphalesion]

^^^By definition, extras are non-speaking roles.

Bit player then. It was still a freaking dumbass line and I rfuse to believe that people in the last third of the 20th century were that stupid.

If he managed to stay awake during the snore fest that is Moby Dick he's smart enough to open a book about whales.

 

[eyeresist]

DO whales attack people? I have no idea.

 

[Trimm]

All of the films after TMP would be greatly enhanced by even modest budget increases. The visual look of the films always showed the limitations of the budget.

Specific changes?

TMP: A much tigher edit of the VFX, and adding back most of the character bits that were not in the theatrical cut, but were in the Special Longer Version.

TWOK: The narrative is fine, but the whole film looks like a nice TV movie. Throw some more money at sets and cinemetography, and you take the film from 4 stars to 5.

TSFS: Take the Genesis scenes on location, get a more dynamic cinemetographer.

TVH: About as close to perfect as a TOS film gets.

TFF: Ugh. If I have to stick with the actual script/story of the film, get the climax on ShaKaRee enough budget for the intended Rockman sequence, get a proper FX house for the film in general.

TUC: Tone down, but don't eliminate some of the more outright racism from the leads. Nix the translation scene for practically anything else. Do more of the Rue Penthe stuff on location.

As to the TNG films? Don't make em. (I actually like GEN, FC, and INS to varrying degrees, but still.)

 

[Trekkin]

DO whales attack people? I have no idea.

Orca do, but technically they're dolphins and it's not exactly normal behaviour. You can find accounts of whales crushing boats, or squashing and swallowing people, but it's more likely an accident as opposed to vindictiveness. Little clutzy people getting too close to something big and reasonably fast in the water.

 

[Terok Nor]

I had no idea the uniforms from 2-6 were so hated. I've always liked them. They're the only ones that actually look like military attire. I love all the various uniforms (with the exception of those from TMP and Enterprise) but they generally look like pyjamas. DS9 and Voyager pretty much allowed the crew to walk around in onesies haha.

 

[FormerLurker]

DO whales attack people? I have no idea.

Orca do, but technically they're dolphins and it's not exactly normal behaviour. You can find accounts of whales crushing boats, or squashing and swallowing people, but it's more likely an accident as opposed to vindictiveness. Little clutzy people getting too close to something big and reasonably fast in the water.

Interestingly enough, Melville was inspired to write Moby Dick by reading an account of a whaling ship that had been stove in by a whale that was just trying to defend itself, sinking the ship, and leaving the crew to slowly starve to death in lifeboats stranded on a calm sea.

 

[Maurice]

I had no idea the uniforms from 2-6 were so hated. I've always liked them. They're the only ones that actually look like military attire. I love all the various uniforms (with the exception of those from TMP and Enterprise) but they generally look like pyjamas. DS9 and Voyager pretty much allowed the crew to walk around in onesies haha.

Except that they look like dress uniforms or a marching band or something from a bygone age. Most people's idea of what looks "military" has little to do with what actual uniforms are like.

 

[Warped9]

I had no idea the uniforms from 2-6 were so hated. I've always liked them. They're the only ones that actually look like military attire. I love all the various uniforms (with the exception of those from TMP and Enterprise) but they generally look like pyjamas. DS9 and Voyager pretty much allowed the crew to walk around in onesies haha.

Except that they look like dress uniforms or a marching band or something from a bygone age. Most people's idea of what looks "military" has little to do with what actual uniforms are like.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't personnel in the various services basically wear shirt, trousers and shoes as everyday service wear? That's really little different than the idea behind the TOS, TMP and TNG standard uniforms and nothing like the TWOK-TUC outfits.

 

[Trekkin]

In Australia, everyone in the navy regardless of rank tend to wear blue-grey fatigues when on duty. Their dress uniforms are the navy blue jackets and pants (winter), and their whites (summer). They also have certain uniforms for Mess and some other activities.

I'm pretty certain some certain positions have a bit of variety, but that's the general gist.

http://www.navy.gov.au/about/organisation/uniforms

 

[Warped9]

In Australia, everyone in the navy regardless of rank tend to wear blue-grey fatigues when on duty. Their dress uniforms are the navy blue jackets and pants (winter), and their whites (summer). They also have certain uniforms for Mess and some other activities.

I'm pretty certain some certain positions have a bit of variety, but that's the general gist.

http://www.navy.gov.au/about/organisation/uniforms

The regular day dress is a close analogy for the TOS, TMP and TNG style uniforms. I imagine the U.S. and U.K. services are roughly similar.

 

[Phantom]

DO whales attack people? I have no idea.

Orca do, but technically they're dolphins and it's not exactly normal behaviour. You can find accounts of whales crushing boats, or squashing and swallowing people, but it's more likely an accident as opposed to vindictiveness. Little clutzy people getting too close to something big and reasonably fast in the water.

Sperm whales have been known to attack whalers. Happened a lot back in the heyday of whaling. Much of Moby Dick is based off an amalgymation of true stories.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-true-life-horror-that-inspired-moby-dick-17576/?no-ist

 

[CorporalCaptain]

TMP

...Star Trek isn't 2001.

No, it's not, but that has never stopped people from making this off-the-cuff type of dismissive assertion of TMP as a 2001 wannabe. TMP wasn't trying to be 2001 either and anyone who knows the two films knows this kind of assertion doesn't hold any water.

Well, that's certainly one opinion.

On the other hand, those of us who know both films intimately can agree that 2001 influenced the structure of TMP in many ways. We might also reasonably assume that "Star Trek isn't 2001" implicitly involves a form of intentional hyperbole, just as we might also reasonably assume that it carries no implication that TMP was some kind of 2001 wannabe. We might reasonably settle on the point (implicit in the hyperbole) that perhaps ST does not belong in the subgenre of SF film in which 2001 is the prototypical or seminal example, an assertion that (regardless of whatever Shaka Zulu meant by his one-liner) I happen to agree with.

TMP is a great ST film, but it has many flaws. Slow, methodical pacing is something that TMP has in common with 2001, but it doesn't work as well in the case of TMP. That sort of pacing is very contrary to TOS, which makes the point of comparison with 2001 all the more significant, namely, and to recap, that TMP differs from TOS in a way that gives it something in common with 2001.

That's not even counting the fact that TMP tackles heavy philosophical subjects similar in kind to those tackled by 2001. This isn't necessarily at odds with TOS to the same degree that pacing is, but getting back to how TMP differs from TOS, philosophical issues tended not to drive story in TOS, whereas in TMP, they're more central.

TMP is a great ST film, but it's main flaw is that it's just not as fun as the best TOS episodes. Coming out of the theater, I'd wanted to feel like I felt after watching "The Doomsday Machine," or say "Arena." I felt none of that. Despite being impressed with a lot of things, I was downright disappointed. As flawed as TWOK is, it restored the sense of fun, which was worth a lot, in and of itself.

There have been some interesting suggestions so far on how to fix TMP, but I don't fully agree with them. I do agree that the presence of Decker and Ilia sucks oxygen away from the TOS cast. Decker ends up being the hero of the film, which is pretty bad for a standard TOS narrative, as it leaves everyone else playing second fiddle. On the other hand, Spock was the hero of TWOK, but the narrative was told from the point of view of Kirk, whose character underwent a significant transformation over the course of the film.

I've never specifically done the exercise, but I'd not be surprised at all if there were a 90-minute cut of TMP that I would regard as an improvement, and maybe even shorter, although I would probably be even more satisfied if it were possible to have recorded a little extra dialog to bridge some of the splices I'd likely recommend. That's really indicative of the problem: there's only enough material there to represent a glorified TV episode.