First-Timer's Impressions of Deep Space Nine

[DevilEyes]

On another level, Crossover rejects the notion that our heros would remain fundamentally unchanged no matter the circumstances (as is the case with Spock). While Kira, Odo, Sisko, O'Brien and the others are all recognizable, they have all been deeply impact in one way or another by their experiences in this darker, more violent universe.
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First off, as I said before, I didn't find MU Kira recognizable at all apart from the fact that she's played by the same actress.

Second, I don't think that "Mirror Mirror" ever suggested that our heroes would remain unchanged no matter what the circumstances. Kirk commits genocide, assassinates Pike in order to replace him as the captain of the Enterprise, kills all his enemies; Chekov tries to assassinate Kirk; Sulu is a leader of a Gestapo-like security force and sexually harasses Uhura; and Spock tortures people, threatens them, forces mind melds on them, and is ready to assassinate Kirk if given the order by Starfleet command. I don't know where people ever got the idea that Spock is unchanged in the Mirror Universe. Must be the consequence of the ending of the episode where he is influenced by prime Kirk & co. decides to change the Empire for the better. By that logic, Sisko is fundamentally unchanged in the Mirror Universe because he starts the rebellion at the end of "Crossover". Yes, MU Spock is not personally ambitious and he is honest about his intentions, but that is because he is still Spock, and he has to have some similarities to the prime Spock beyond the looks, in order to convincingly be the same person from an alternate universe. You can just slap a bunch of random characteristics and say that it's an alternate version of the same character, if they're not similar at all. Which is why Mirror Spock is, IMO, the example of how Mirror characters should be done: he is recognizable as Spock, but he is different, he's ruthless as one would have to be in the MU universe.

edit: Now I see that you've edited that part from your post, so it seems like I'm replying to a non-existent post.

 

[flemm]

edit: Now I see that you've edited that part from your post, so it seems like I'm replying to a non-existent post.

I decided to hold off on some of this discussion until I have a chance to rewatch these episodes. As I think about it, I'm not sure that DS9's approach is really a radical departure from TOS as far as the characters are concerned. The TOS characters are all wildy different, but Spock turns out to have a fundamental underlying similarity. The DS9 equivalent is O'Brien's counterpart. But you could make a case for some of the others as well, I think. I'm going to have to rewatch Mirror, Mirror and Crossover with this in mind.

 

[Pemmer Harge]

I'm a big fan of Crossover. This is DS9's best MU episode, but the next one's pretty good too.

 

[Eyes]

I'm a big fan of both the Wire and Crossover. They were brilliant, both two early gems of DS9. The Wire is really the best of the Garak-Bashir relationship, while Crossover is fun and in several ways is definitive of DS9's intentions towards other Trek.

 

[Jimmy Bob]

Depends on the point of view. Worse for whom? They are probably not any worse for the Klingons or the Cardassians or the Bajorans (though we never even saw them in TOS or ENT), and we don't know if they're worse, better, or the same for the various alien races who used to be under the rule of the Terran Empire. The only race that we know for sure is worse off are Humans. And even that is questionable - it's worse for Human race as a whole, but many individual Humans were probably as oppressed, imprisoned or killed during the reign of the Terran Empire.

In other words, your view is terribly Human-centric.

In the words of Edward James Olmos: "There is but one race and that is the human race!" So say we all! All hail EJO!

As a member of the human species you're only loyalty belongs to your kin alone. You know, there's a word for people like you - revisionist!

Have you forgotten all about 05.04.2063? Our humble planet was attacked by an invading force called the Vulcan Empire. But then we had strong leaders, strong men like Zefram Cochrane, who stood up against these invading forces.

Just about when the vulcan ambassador was to declare these holy lands as the property of Vulcan, Zefram Cochrane took his gun and shot the bastard into face.

We were invaded first. But we resisted and won. The galaxy is an hostile place. Everyone is against us!

And that's why we can't be weak. Because then we will be made slaves. Our Holy Terran Empire only existed because we could be free.

Now I know some of you marxist-neo-progressives are trying to twist our history with revisionist ideas like "what if the vulcans weren't hostile?" "What if it was about something else?"

Well, hello brain! Are you home? I don't think so. Nothing good would have come from the vulcans. The example of Spock and where his reforms got us is a proof of that.

You know, the problem is that you're female. I'm not a misogynist but it's well-known fact that females should stay out of politics. You just rely on your feelings to much. Let's take Our Glorious Mistress Empress Hoshi Sato for example.

Don't get me wrong. I have every respect for the woman. The Empire was crumbling, everyone was a separatist and lot of rebels everywhere. There were no manly men in that age and so a woman had to take over. And she saved the empire from destruction. I don't deny that.

But she made vulcans equal with us! And you can see where that got us. With one hand you women give and with the other you take.

Long Live The Human Race! Death To Aliens!

Cast away your chains of slavery and serfdom! Your masters have no right over you! We were a glorious people once! People who were free, who had dignity, who had pride. But we have forgotten all about our pride! We have forgotten our heritage! Reclaim your heritage! Reclaim your pride! Reclaim the rightful place of your species!

Join the Reconstruction!

 

[Jimmy Bob]

Just to be clear here: the post above is not meant to be taken seriously. Okay? That post was written by my mirror universe counterpart. And he's evil. Okay?

I'm going to write a review for Collaborator now. So don't ban me at the moment. Otherwise you'll never know what I thought about the episode.

 

[Sykonee]

Just to be clear here: the post above is not meant to be taken seriously. Okay? That post was written by my mirror universe counterpart. And he's evil. Okay?

Then where's the Mirror Universe avatar with a goatee?

 

[Jimmy Bob]

The Collaborator

Oh, it's him again.

I've been thinking. Perhaps he's not that bad. He's a liberal theologian. I like it liberal. He sees random hanged men. I like to overdose too. We have similar taste in women. Perhaps... perhaps he's not that bad.

I think I can forgive him that he's banging Kira and I'm not.

Does he have to rub it into my face! And does he have to be in better shape than me!

VEDEK BAREIL! I HATE YOU!!!

I knew it. I knew he was evil. I'm so glad that he gets what he deserves. I would have been so much more manly under that cardassian rule. Not like a coward collaborator like...

Oh. Didn't see that coming. That changes everything. The world is suddenly such a scary place with Vedik Winn winning and everyone having dark secrets.

What's going to happen with us now?

 

[apenpaap]

Just to be clear here: the post above is not meant to be taken seriously. Okay? That post was written by my mirror universe counterpart. And he's evil. Okay?

Then where's the Mirror Universe avatar with a goatee?

Yeah, with you two looking exactly alike, how do we know which one to kill?

 

[Jimmy Bob]

Then where's the Mirror Universe avatar with a goatee?

But Scott Bakula did not have a goatee either.

 

[Jimmy Bob]

Yeah, with you two looking exactly alike, how do we know which one to kill?

The one who says "Hi! My name is TheGodBen."

 

[Sykonee]

Then where's the Mirror Universe avatar with a goatee?

But Scott Bakula did not have a goatee either.

That's because it would be out of character for Archer to be able to grow facial hair, no matter the Universe.

 

[TheGodBen]

Hi! My name is TheGodBen.

Oh. Didn't see that coming. That changes everything. The world is suddenly such a scary place with Vedik Winn winning and everyone having dark secrets.

What's going to happen with us now?

Originally Bareil was going to be elected Kai, that was the plan ever since he was introduced at the end of last season, but when they finally got around to writing this episode Ira Behr realised that Bareil becoming Kai was a mistake and that the show would be more interesting if Winn was the new Kai. Looking back on the show it is amazing to think that Bareil was supposed to be Kai, that would have been so boring. It's greatly to the show's credit that they let the "bad guy" win, and the consequences of that decision will last right up until the end.

 

[Jimmy Bob]

Tribunal



There was something very Kafka, something very Phillip K.Dick about this episode. Not to mention the obvious Orwellian tones. Very 1984.

But by Kafka and Dick, I meant the absurdness of everything that was said. And the camera angles.

"Remove your clothes."

"I am a person."*

"Remove your clothes."

And then the greatest lawyer ever - Conservator Kovat - making an entrance.

Kovat: "Hello. I'm your lawyer. I'm here to help you concede the wisdom of the state. It's good for the people to see people like you confess. It makes them feel better."
O'Brien: "What I'm being charged with?"
Kovat: "No need to worry about that. Everyone will find this trial so uplifting. You're only one man, but your conviction will be a salvatory experience for millions. Questions?"

That was just so high.The way he was so positive and caring and what he said. That was just so high.And then the trial itself.

"The sentence is death. Let the trial begin."


It's just so crazy, so high.

With Cardassia DS9 has managed to deliver a certain cyberpunk flavour into Trek. I like this flavour. A lot.

Kovat: "Now would be the time to advise the offender."
Odo: "Advise him to what?"
Kovat: To confess. To throw himself to the mercy of the court."
Odo: "I never heard of mercy in cardassian court.
Kovat: "That's not the point. Think of the children!"

Please tell me that this won't be the only time I see Kovat. He's just such a wonderful lawyer and character.

* Yeah, I paraphrased it all.

 

[TheGodBen]

I'm afraid you wont see Kovat again, he was probably executed for winning his case.

Tribunal is good fun, it's certainly the most fun I've had watching a naked Irishman being tortured (that I'll admit to). And it was the first episode of the show directed by Avery Brooks. Oh, and be prepared to see those establishing shots of Cardassia over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.


Now watch the next episode. Don't wait for the translation, watch it now!

It's a fun comedic romp.

 

[Fist McStrongpunch]

Oh great, now we're onto the silly "let's go camping" episode. How pointless.

 

[Tosk]

I dunno, I kinda like the next episode. It's the one where I actually started to like Nog a lot more.

 

[InklingStar]

A family bonding camping trip, and some slapstick hijinks in the runabout. And this was the season finale?

 

[Tosk]

^Better than the clip show season 2 finale that TNG had. Gah!

 

[TheGodBen]

A family bonding camping trip, and some slapstick hijinks in the runabout. And this was the season finale?

It gets really good once the titular Jem'Hadar shows up though, the Jem'Hadar being that rabbit thing they try (and fail) to hunt for dinner. Quark accidentally throwing that spear into Jake's eye was hilarious.