I knew that it was probably wrong, but couldn't be arsed to check it. I guess I should return my geek card.Is there something wrong with me if I really, really, really want to fix this error?
First-Timer's Impressions of Deep Space Nine
- Thread starter Jimmy Bob
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I just finished DS9 for the first time last week ... and have this irrational urge to start all over again ... I've always hate "The Emissary" and wonder if my view of it will change knowing where the series ends up. And, actually, I wonder that about a lot of episodes. As for the Picard-Sisko scene, I always saw Sisko coming across as incredibly juvenile and petulant. And extremely unlikable. By the end of the series he was one of my favorite characters, but he started off on a very poor note for me.
There isn't a statement truer than "There is nary a single scene in all of DS9 wherein Keiko isn't endlessly being extremely annoying for no reason whatsoever."
DS9 did a good job of servicing it's secondary roles with good roles and meaty dialogue, but not with Keiko. It doesn't help that Rosalind Chao can't act.
Disagree. I found her to be very supportive and helpful to O'Brien in Rivals. Yeah, most write that episode off as fluff, but there it is.
I never noticed Keiko being so awful as people make her out to be. 
Now if you want to know a really annoying, whiny, nagging moron of a wife, read Day of the Vipers. Darrah Karrys is such an irritating character, it's the one thing that hurt my enjoyment of an otherwise excellent book.
Now if you want to know a really annoying, whiny, nagging moron of a wife, read Day of the Vipers. Darrah Karrys is such an irritating character, it's the one thing that hurt my enjoyment of an otherwise excellent book.
Captive Pursuit
I really liked this episode. The guy playing Tosk really delivered... in fact, without the acting power of it's leads, this episode wouldn't have much going for it.
Colm Meany is one lucky actor, going from an extra to a cast member. Mike Sussman said to TheGodBen that all good things come to those who wait them, and I was just thinking that how true it is - you're some guy called Colm Meany, saying some technobabble lines on TNG and then you get a seven year job where you can finally show off your skills...
Yes, I really don't have anything to say today. I mean, I can't even muster up a reaction to what happened around here while I was gone.... brain no work, don't know why.
I liked it. The Gamma aliens however had stupid costumes. That's pretty much it. It's a nice "man-friends man-bonding for life" tale.
Interesting fact: Tosk was played by the same guy who played the lead bad guy in ENT season 3. Unfortunately, the lead bad guy was the weakest link in season 3... so, it was only now when I bothered to find out who that actor was.
*** out of ****
Colm Meany is one lucky actor, going from an extra to a cast member. Mike Sussman said to TheGodBen that all good things come to those who wait them, and I was just thinking that how true it is - you're some guy called Colm Meany, saying some technobabble lines on TNG and then you get a seven year job where you can finally show off your skills...
Yes, I really don't have anything to say today. I mean, I can't even muster up a reaction to what happened around here while I was gone.... brain no work, don't know why.
I liked it. The Gamma aliens however had stupid costumes. That's pretty much it. It's a nice "man-friends man-bonding for life" tale.
Interesting fact: Tosk was played by the same guy who played the lead bad guy in ENT season 3. Unfortunately, the lead bad guy was the weakest link in season 3... so, it was only now when I bothered to find out who that actor was.
I'm reaping what I have sowed.
Captive Pursuit is one of the best episodes of season 1, although it doesn't really qualify as an O'Brien torture episode.
Q-Less
I wasn't expecting a Q episode this soon. *sigh*
You know, I was preparing myself to love this episode as much as I could. I thought to myself that it doesn't matter if Q is somewhat out-of-character... I love him anyway. So here I am - loving Q, loving Vash and loving Q-Pid as a wonderful interlude in season 4 of TNG, and I'm preparing myself for the worst so I could be surprised by any good there might have been... and it wasn't enough.
It was just bad.
It wasn't even a Q episode. It was more like a Vash episode in where Q was a minor character... but as I said, I love Vash so that shouldn't have been a problem.
Unfortunately this episode is like a bad work of fan-fiction, that doesn't in-character at all with it's characters.
Q-Pid was magical and Q taking Vash away really felt like a thing is supposed to feel like... you know, that feeling right thing. And only fan-fiction would do a sad follow-up like this - lover's quarrel with Q being the psycho boyfriend.
It wasn't the Q I know. Okay, so in Voyager Q was also a bit out of character, but I loved Q in Voyager because Kate and John had a wonderful chemistry. But this wasn't anything like Q at all.
He was just reduced to this minor annoyance with everyone going on like he is a minor annoyance. But the problem is that he didn't actually interact with the crew at all. He was just there to be the psycho boyfriend for Vash. I think it would have been possible to do an adequate DS9 Q episode, but the key thing in making it work would have been an actual interaction between Q and the crew.
And here there was none.
Q was just like 5-10 minutes in it anyway as most of the episode was wasted on some mysterious danger... when I see Q, I want wildness from the beginning, not some 30 minutes wasted on the mystery of Vash's character and how did she get into Gamma Quadrant, that isn't mysterious at all.
Vash was mostly okay, aside from the psycho boyfriend thing with lines like "now I know why Picard warned me about you!" feeling so wrong. It was still more-or-less the same Vash. But she's the romantic lead for the adventures of Indiana Picard, so DS9 was the wrong stage to tell her story anyway. Because there is just no dramatic tension between her and DS9. She's just some random person in DS9 world.
So in short:
1) Q doesn't interact with the crew
2) Episode should be called Vash-less
3) Too much is wasted on some non-existant mystery
Arguably, they shouldn't have tried Q at all, since Emissary really creates this very different universe for DS9, but I think it would have been possible at least to make a decent episode. The approach was just wrong.
I also love Lwaxana Troi and now I'm fearing that this doesn't bode well for her appearances.
* out of ****
You know, I was preparing myself to love this episode as much as I could. I thought to myself that it doesn't matter if Q is somewhat out-of-character... I love him anyway. So here I am - loving Q, loving Vash and loving Q-Pid as a wonderful interlude in season 4 of TNG, and I'm preparing myself for the worst so I could be surprised by any good there might have been... and it wasn't enough.
It was just bad.
It wasn't even a Q episode. It was more like a Vash episode in where Q was a minor character... but as I said, I love Vash so that shouldn't have been a problem.
Unfortunately this episode is like a bad work of fan-fiction, that doesn't in-character at all with it's characters.
Q-Pid was magical and Q taking Vash away really felt like a thing is supposed to feel like... you know, that feeling right thing. And only fan-fiction would do a sad follow-up like this - lover's quarrel with Q being the psycho boyfriend.
It wasn't the Q I know. Okay, so in Voyager Q was also a bit out of character, but I loved Q in Voyager because Kate and John had a wonderful chemistry. But this wasn't anything like Q at all.
He was just reduced to this minor annoyance with everyone going on like he is a minor annoyance. But the problem is that he didn't actually interact with the crew at all. He was just there to be the psycho boyfriend for Vash. I think it would have been possible to do an adequate DS9 Q episode, but the key thing in making it work would have been an actual interaction between Q and the crew.
And here there was none.
Q was just like 5-10 minutes in it anyway as most of the episode was wasted on some mysterious danger... when I see Q, I want wildness from the beginning, not some 30 minutes wasted on the mystery of Vash's character and how did she get into Gamma Quadrant, that isn't mysterious at all.
Vash was mostly okay, aside from the psycho boyfriend thing with lines like "now I know why Picard warned me about you!" feeling so wrong. It was still more-or-less the same Vash. But she's the romantic lead for the adventures of Indiana Picard, so DS9 was the wrong stage to tell her story anyway. Because there is just no dramatic tension between her and DS9. She's just some random person in DS9 world.
So in short:
1) Q doesn't interact with the crew
2) Episode should be called Vash-less
3) Too much is wasted on some non-existant mystery
Arguably, they shouldn't have tried Q at all, since Emissary really creates this very different universe for DS9, but I think it would have been possible at least to make a decent episode. The approach was just wrong.
I also love Lwaxana Troi and now I'm fearing that this doesn't bode well for her appearances.
I really enjoyed seeing Sisko hitting Q.One thing I'll give credit for Q-Less, is that it gives Sisko some of his best character development for nearly a year.
Q: "You hit me! Picard never hit me."
Sisko: "I'm not Picard."
Q: "Indeed not. You're much easier to provoke."
It shows that Sisko wouldn't put up with Q's nonsense that he wanted Q never to return to ds9 he got his wish.
I never noticed Keiko being so awful as people make her out to be.
Now if you want to know a really annoying, whiny, nagging moron of a wife, read Day of the Vipers. Darrah Karrys is such an irritating character, it's the one thing that hurt my enjoyment of an otherwise excellent book.
Agreed on both counts. I never had a problem with Keiko. She was a bit whiny and argumentative, but who isn't? And Miles was equally bull-headed at times, so it's not like it was one sided. She seemed a normal enough person to me, and the O'Briens' relationship was convincing enough too.
As for Darrah Karys, she was Ih'valla caste, and they're a highly priviledged caste no doubt used to getting everything handed to them on a platter (I mean, they're artists, they paint pictures rather than do actual work, I imagine). And she did marry below her station. So, I agree, she was highly irritating, but I imagine that's what happens when someone outside the Ih'valla caste marries an Ih'valla.
Dax
An episode about Dax without Dax. I didn't really get any answers to my questions, as this episode was mostly about other characters speaking about Dax and she remaining silent.
I liked that Sisko set out a clear narrative of Jadzia Dax being a "new individual" and ordering to ignore any evidence that might go against that narrative.
This also reminded me of an episode from another Trek show, also ironically being the 8 episode in season 1. There was a certain similarity with Voyager's Ex Post Facto with crewmember on trial, other crewmember investigating and themes of adultery. I just find it funny now.
In the last page, DevilEyes made a long post about Trills, and I meant to reply a long time ago. But since this episode brought those issues up again, I'll now unite my "planned" reply and impressions about this episode.
And frankly we don't see any Jadzia in Dax in this episode either. Because Dax was more like a painting everyone tried to describe than a character in this episode. But what we do see, only adds to my impression of Jadzia being just a body for Dax to wear.
Sisko did create a narrative that "new body, new person", but he didn't believe in it. And unfortunately, this episode wasn't told from Jadzia's point of view, so that intentionally "false" narrative is all I got.
It does seem to be brainwashing. That official Trill guy was mostly doing PR talk for the Trill society. Dax said that Jadzia wanted to become a host since birth. Where does a child gets such desires from?
With that said, I'll now quote myself.
And that's why Dax is so dominant. Because there was no Jadzia the Individual strong enough to absorb all those former personalities and remain self-aware. And so, Jadzia leaned towards being an extension of Curazon.
And that's why this episode ends with Curazon's former lover telling Jadzia "Live!". Because Jadzia hasn't lived. She hasn't become a person of her own. And perhaps that was what the ending meant - a realization for Jadzia that she needs to become a new person, not female Curazon.
Bottom Line: this episode raised some interesting questions and, I guess, planned to develop currently the least developed character on DS9. Unfortunately, due to having Jadzia Dax being just as a minor character that other people talk about, and that whole murder thing solved with adultery husband jackass ex machina - the episode didn't really accomplish anything.
An episode about Dax without Dax. I didn't really get any answers to my questions, as this episode was mostly about other characters speaking about Dax and she remaining silent.
I liked that Sisko set out a clear narrative of Jadzia Dax being a "new individual" and ordering to ignore any evidence that might go against that narrative.
This also reminded me of an episode from another Trek show, also ironically being the 8 episode in season 1. There was a certain similarity with Voyager's Ex Post Facto with crewmember on trial, other crewmember investigating and themes of adultery. I just find it funny now.
In the last page, DevilEyes made a long post about Trills, and I meant to reply a long time ago. But since this episode brought those issues up again, I'll now unite my "planned" reply and impressions about this episode.
Just some episodes ago, Dax walked around and said that she had forgotten how it was like being a woman. All that attention. But the "body" has been a woman for 25 years before becoming "gifted", so what gives?
And frankly we don't see any Jadzia in Dax in this episode either. Because Dax was more like a painting everyone tried to describe than a character in this episode. But what we do see, only adds to my impression of Jadzia being just a body for Dax to wear.
Sisko did create a narrative that "new body, new person", but he didn't believe in it. And unfortunately, this episode wasn't told from Jadzia's point of view, so that intentionally "false" narrative is all I got.
Hmm... so non-symbiont Trills have lives? Not everyone is perfecting their bodies for that chance of becoming a host? Well of course, "retarded" Trills are probably used as a source of cheap labour. Retarded in this case=unfit for symbiosis from birth. But what about those who don't get chosen?
It does seem to be brainwashing. That official Trill guy was mostly doing PR talk for the Trill society. Dax said that Jadzia wanted to become a host since birth. Where does a child gets such desires from?
I was, and still somewhat am, under the impression that the symbionts are the rulers of Trill society. DS9 has given less information, than that one Trill episode in TNG about these people, so I am somewhat influenced by that episode with them ordering new bodies when previous ones have had a "fatal malfunction."
With that said, I'll now quote myself.
So let's say that all that talk about the "body" still being a person is true. We now have this girl, spending her whole life perfecting herself, absorbing knowledge and training her body for just one purpose. It's logical to assume that she never had any time for self-reflection. And thus in her mental state, she never became a self-aware individual called Jadzia, but just an automaton living out the collective dream.
And that's why Dax is so dominant. Because there was no Jadzia the Individual strong enough to absorb all those former personalities and remain self-aware. And so, Jadzia leaned towards being an extension of Curazon.
And that's why this episode ends with Curazon's former lover telling Jadzia "Live!". Because Jadzia hasn't lived. She hasn't become a person of her own. And perhaps that was what the ending meant - a realization for Jadzia that she needs to become a new person, not female Curazon.
Bottom Line: this episode raised some interesting questions and, I guess, planned to develop currently the least developed character on DS9. Unfortunately, due to having Jadzia Dax being just as a minor character that other people talk about, and that whole murder thing solved with adultery husband jackass ex machina - the episode didn't really accomplish anything.
^ That's because the writers hadn't really sorted out that Trill business early on, and I'm guessing that you're influenced by the portrayal of Trills on TNG ("The Host"), where it was actually implied that the hosts are just bodies that the symbiont takes over and that a Trill is exactly the same person no matter which body it is in. My post was an explanation about the Trills as they were eventually established to be like (since season 2 of DS9). But there is absolutely no way to reconcile that with the TNG version of Trills and the relationship between symbiont and host - which was indeed less interesting and rather creepy. People at the website Ex Astris Scientia even wrote an article in the section "Inconsistencies" listing all the differences between the TNG and DS9 Trills (link not provided because of spoiler issue) and I'll quote their conclusion:
"Dax" is indeed the weakest Jadzia episode, and it took some time until her character was properly fleshed out. She seemed to be one of the characters that the writers didn't have a good grip early on. As already mentioned several times in this thread, Sisko didn't get a lot of development in the first couple of seasons, and Bashir was annoying (and occasionally badly acted). OTOH, Kira, Quark, Garak and Odo were strong characters from the beginning.
I don't envy you, you're now in for a string of lame season 1 episodes. Be strong and hang on, when it gets better it's really worth it.Q-Less
I wasn't expecting a Q episode this soon. *sigh** out of ****
You know, I was preparing myself to love this episode as much as I could. I thought to myself that it doesn't matter if Q is somewhat out-of-character... I love him anyway. So here I am - loving Q, loving Vash and loving Q-Pid as a wonderful interlude in season 4 of TNG, and I'm preparing myself for the worst so I could be surprised by any good there might have been... and it wasn't enough.
It was just bad.
Lwaxana fared much better. She showed a different side to her on DS9... For my part, I liked her better on DS9 than on TNG.
You'll see the same guy in another great (heavy makeup) alien role in season 4. I found out who he is when I was making a quiz thread asking people to recognize Trek actors without alien makeup. He was also the Romulan who 'recruited' Troi in The Face of the Enemy, and I think he played a human in some episode as well. Dolim was really the least interesting of those roles and the weakest link of season 3 of ENT. I guess they just told him to play him as a one-dimensional villain.
Best damn thing about the episode, and it's a quote you hear a lot if you spend too much time around this forum.
I can only agree with Jimmy Bob on Q-Less, there wasn't enough of Q interacting with the crew to make his appearance worthwhile, and I'm just one of those people that thinks Q should have stayed on TNG anyway. Q was fantastic against Picard, he was the perfect foil to Picard's stuffy and strait-laced demeanour. Sisko is a different person entirely from Picard so they were never going to recapture what made Q so great on DS9.
Dax felt a bit too much as though it were an episode designed to explain the Trill rather than attempting to be a good episode in its own right, as a result it's a little dull. The Bajoran legal system isn't nearly as interesting as the Cardassian legal system, but you'll find out about that next season.
Exposition to remind the audience that she's a Trill.
They live normal lives. Only 0.1% of the Trill population is considered capable of supporting a symbiont and they have to go through a rigorous selection process to ensure that the host personality isn't too weak as to be completely absorbed by the symbiont. You'll learn more about this in season 3.
It also should be noted that there's two Jadzias; for the first year and a half she is a reserved Spock-like scientist character but in mid season 2 her personality changed a lot. Basically, the writers admitted defeat with Jadzia as you currently know her and decided to do something that they thought was more interesting.
*cough* Meridian *cough*
Oh, I forgot about that one.
I think it was because I don't think about it as a Dax episode, as it had nothing to do with being a Trill, so I blanked it out of my mind... for that and other reasons. 
I was thinking about the episodes that actually deal with Jadzia's Trillness, like
Dax, Invasive Procedures, Playing God, Equllibrium, Facets.
ProtoAvatar
Fleet Captain
In the DS9 Relaunch novels, the obvious discrimination between joined/non-joined and its effects/consequences on the trill cicilization was explored in a novel.
"Worlds of DS9" depicts a veritable civil war on trill caused by this discrimination.
The Bajoran legal system isn't nearly as interesting as the Cardassian legal system, but you'll find out about that next season.
Wrong, they're both boring!
I actually quite enjoyed Dax, but it doesn't tell us an awful lot about Jadzia.
And then in Season 5 they
hooked her up with Worf
I rationalize this as a natural result of the Trill joining process. In season one, we have the pocket-protector wearing Jadzia, the recently deceased Curzon, and a substratum of other personalities all coexisting within Jadzia Dax. They are not multiple personalities per se. They are multiple aspects of a new personality which has not yet learned how to balance them. By the end of season two, they have become more integrated, and Jadzia Dax has grown comfortable with her post-joining psyche.
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