First the cops...now the postal system

[Squiggy]

Obama:

“no matter how we reform health care, we will keep this promise: If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor. Period. If you like your health care plan, you will be able to keep your health care plan. Period. No one will take it away. No matter what. My view is that health care reform should be guided by a simple principle: fix what’s broken and build on what works.”

Yes. How dare he say such things.

 

[Rii]

But at least you admit this would be a socialist program.

Yeah, and it would take a seat alongside all of the other socialist programs already in place in the United States that have somehow failed to hasten the heat death of the universe.

 

[Mr. B]

Obama:

“no matter how we reform health care, we will keep this promise: If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor. Period. If you like your health care plan, you will be able to keep your health care plan. Period. No one will take it away. No matter what. My view is that health care reform should be guided by a simple principle: fix what’s broken and build on what works.”

Yes. How dare he say such things.

That statement is simply dishonest. HR 3200 is designed to systematically dismantle private insurance, in part by cutting off employer provided coverage which a large segment of the population receives.

Pg 16: SEC. 102. PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT COVERAGE. lines 3-26 of the HC Bill – OUTLAWS PRIVATE INSURANCE by forbidding enrollment after HR 3022 is passed into law.

Pg 145: SEC. 312. EMPLOYER RESPONSIBILITY TO CONTRIBUTE TOWARDS EMPLOYEE AND DEPENDENT COVERAGE Line 15-17 An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into public option plan.


Pg 146: SEC. 312. EMPLOYER RESPONSIBILITY TO CONTRIBUTE TOWARDS EMPLOYEE AND DEPENDENT COVERAGE Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay 4 HC 4 part time employees AND their families.


Pg 149: SEC. 313. EMPLOYER CONTRIBUTIONS IN LIEU OF COVERAGE Lines 16-24 ANY Employer with payroll of $400k and above who does not provide public option pays 8% tax on all payroll.

Inside the Health Care Bill, aka HR3200 ...read with the bill[PDF]

 

[cultcross]

Obama:

“no matter how we reform health care, we will keep this promise: If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor. Period. If you like your health care plan, you will be able to keep your health care plan. Period. No one will take it away. No matter what. My view is that health care reform should be guided by a simple principle: fix what’s broken and build on what works.”

Yes. How dare he say such things.

That statement is simply dishonest. HR 3200 is designed to systematically dismantle private insurance, in part by cutting off employer provided coverage which a large segment of the population receives.

Pg 16: SEC. 102. PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT COVERAGE. lines 3-26 of the HC Bill – OUTLAWS PRIVATE INSURANCE by forbidding enrollment after HR 3022 is passed into law.

Pg 145: SEC. 312. EMPLOYER RESPONSIBILITY TO CONTRIBUTE TOWARDS EMPLOYEE AND DEPENDENT COVERAGE Line 15-17 An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into public option plan.


Pg 146: SEC. 312. EMPLOYER RESPONSIBILITY TO CONTRIBUTE TOWARDS EMPLOYEE AND DEPENDENT COVERAGE Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay 4 HC 4 part time employees AND their families.


Pg 149: SEC. 313. EMPLOYER CONTRIBUTIONS IN LIEU OF COVERAGE Lines 16-24 ANY Employer with payroll of $400k and above who does not provide public option pays 8% tax on all payroll.

Inside the Health Care Bill, aka HR3200 ...read with the bill[PDF]

So he's not being dishonest at all. He said: "If you like your health care plan, you will be able to keep your health care plan. Period. No one will take it away. No matter what." Not one of the sections you quote there says anything about taking away an existing healthcare plan. Not one.

 

[Mr. B]

The bill requires employers to either move to the public option or pay an additional tax on payroll if they do not move to the public option. How many employers do you believe are going to pay the penalty for not offering the public option while continuing to pay for private insurance plans?

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Obama:

“no matter how we reform health care, we will keep this promise: If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor. Period. If you like your health care plan, you will be able to keep your health care plan. Period. No one will take it away. No matter what. My view is that health care reform should be guided by a simple principle: fix what’s broken and build on what works.”

Yes. How dare he say such things.

That statement is simply dishonest. HR 3200 is designed to systematically dismantle private insurance, in part by cutting off employer provided coverage which a large segment of the population receives.

Pg 16: SEC. 102. PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT COVERAGE. lines 3-26 of the HC Bill – OUTLAWS PRIVATE INSURANCE by forbidding enrollment after HR 3022 is passed into law.

Pg 145: SEC. 312. EMPLOYER RESPONSIBILITY TO CONTRIBUTE TOWARDS EMPLOYEE AND DEPENDENT COVERAGE Line 15-17 An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into public option plan.


Pg 146: SEC. 312. EMPLOYER RESPONSIBILITY TO CONTRIBUTE TOWARDS EMPLOYEE AND DEPENDENT COVERAGE Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay 4 HC 4 part time employees AND their families.


Pg 149: SEC. 313. EMPLOYER CONTRIBUTIONS IN LIEU OF COVERAGE Lines 16-24 ANY Employer with payroll of $400k and above who does not provide public option pays 8% tax on all payroll.

Inside the Health Care Bill, aka HR3200 ...read with the bill[PDF]

Hey, you know what's funny? I am reading the bill, side-by-side with this Peter Fleckstein's alarmist comments about it--and it doesn't mean what he says it does. Like where he says "YOUR CARE IS RATIONED," it describes the minimum level of care that all Americans would receive, and in my opinion is it quite comprehensive.

I went over some of the others and started on point-by-point rebuttals, but really, why bother? The stuff he says is alarmist at best, and downright false at worst. He takes innocuous statements--like "electronic fund transfers"--and makes them sound Orwellian. Because, of course, nobody pays with a credit or debit card for anything, ever, right?

 

[Squiggy]

Obama:

“no matter how we reform health care, we will keep this promise: If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor. Period. If you like your health care plan, you will be able to keep your health care plan. Period. No one will take it away. No matter what. My view is that health care reform should be guided by a simple principle: fix what’s broken and build on what works.”

Yes. How dare he say such things.

That statement is simply dishonest. HR 3200 is designed to systematically dismantle private insurance, in part by cutting off employer provided coverage which a large segment of the population receives.

Pg 16: SEC. 102. PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT COVERAGE. lines 3-26 of the HC Bill – OUTLAWS PRIVATE INSURANCE by forbidding enrollment after HR 3022 is passed into law.

Pg 145: SEC. 312. EMPLOYER RESPONSIBILITY TO CONTRIBUTE TOWARDS EMPLOYEE AND DEPENDENT COVERAGE Line 15-17 An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into public option plan.


Pg 146: SEC. 312. EMPLOYER RESPONSIBILITY TO CONTRIBUTE TOWARDS EMPLOYEE AND DEPENDENT COVERAGE Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay 4 HC 4 part time employees AND their families.


Pg 149: SEC. 313. EMPLOYER CONTRIBUTIONS IN LIEU OF COVERAGE Lines 16-24 ANY Employer with payroll of $400k and above who does not provide public option pays 8% tax on all payroll.

Inside the Health Care Bill, aka HR3200 ...read with the bill[PDF]

As I said before, section 102 doesn't outlaw private insurance...it outlaws grandfathering after the fact.

 

[Misfit Toy]

More appropriate points:

"Status Quo" just isn't good enough.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Obama:

Yes. How dare he say such things.

That statement is simply dishonest. HR 3200 is designed to systematically dismantle private insurance, in part by cutting off employer provided coverage which a large segment of the population receives.

Pg 16: SEC. 102. PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT COVERAGE. lines 3-26 of the HC Bill – OUTLAWS PRIVATE INSURANCE by forbidding enrollment after HR 3022 is passed into law.

Pg 145: SEC. 312. EMPLOYER RESPONSIBILITY TO CONTRIBUTE TOWARDS EMPLOYEE AND DEPENDENT COVERAGE Line 15-17 An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into public option plan.


Pg 146: SEC. 312. EMPLOYER RESPONSIBILITY TO CONTRIBUTE TOWARDS EMPLOYEE AND DEPENDENT COVERAGE Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay 4 HC 4 part time employees AND their families.


Pg 149: SEC. 313. EMPLOYER CONTRIBUTIONS IN LIEU OF COVERAGE Lines 16-24 ANY Employer with payroll of $400k and above who does not provide public option pays 8% tax on all payroll.

Inside the Health Care Bill, aka HR3200 ...read with the bill[PDF]

As I said before, section 102 doesn't outlaw private insurance...it outlaws grandfathering after the fact.

Going over the LGF post point-by-point... I have yet to find one criticism listed that turned out to be true, based on the text of HR 3200 itself. Color me shocked.

 

[Mr. B]

As I said before, section 102 doesn't outlaw private insurance...it outlaws grandfathering after the fact.

How does that differ from denying new enrollment after the bill is enacted?

 

[Scout101]

^exactly. You either use every penny you put into the system (tough to do, trying to calculate out that you pay X in premiums every month, so need to make Y number of doctor visits, perscriptions etc to break perfectly even), or you already pay for other people's health care.

And if you've every been hurt, or had a child (you claim to have a kid, yes?), then you've probably COST the system more than you've put into it, and thus are living off of the government teat.

One hospital visit pretty much wipes out a lifetime of premiums, so which is it?

What your "self respect" makes you do with this information is up to you. If you stand by your convictions, it would appear that you need to cancel your health insurance at once. If it's all talk, you'll likely keep the insurance, because it benefits you at someone else's expense.

Please explain again how Joe Deadbeat downing a 40 at 9am is paying for my healthcare? Maybe you'll feel differently when you are married (you claim to have a fiance, yes?) and have a family to support. Maybe not...

As I just finished explaining, it's simple math. Grab a pencil and paper if needed. Add up the total you've paid in premiums for your health insurance. Now tally up the number of trips to the hospital, doctor's office, or pharmacy you've made in your lifetime, and the approximate total cost of each visit (not your co-pay, the full amount each visit would cost). Wanna bet which number is higher? Especially if you've had an operation or two, or had a child, you've taken out more than you've put in. You're already taking money from the system, self-respect or no.

Meaning the guy that doesn't go to the doctor as often has likely paid for part of your care. You don't have to create a strawman about a drunk deadbeat, anyone that hasn't taken full advantage of their health care will do. The hard-working farmer that's too stubborn to get checked out occasionally is paying for your care as well.

How will being married (yep, not just a claim, really engaged. I've even posted photos, unlike some others) change that basic math? It'll make me even MORE sure to keep medical coverage, but then I've got full coverage now, so not really much to change there, other than to switch from the "single" to "family" plan. She's already covered (she's a doctor, so kinda a no-brainer, right?), so no emergency there...

Only way to ensure you'll never receive anything you didn't pay for in full is to cancel your health insurance and pay as you go. Are you willing to stand on your morals, or is this an "all-talk" argument where you will continue to do the things you rail against, as long as it has personal benefits?

 

[TheLonelySquire]

More appropriate points:

"Status Quo" just isn't good enough.

Hey, we all have priorities!

 

[sidious618]

Is it just me or does the goalpost that those who are against health care just keep moving? First it was: We will become a completely socialist nation. Then we moved to: There will be no insurance except for government run insurance and Obama will decide what our doctors will do to us. Now it's: UHC may hurt some of the private insurance companies.

Every time UHC is challenged the challenger just has to keep changing the extremes because, quite frankly, they don't have a leg to stand on when this country's current healthcare system is in the shitter.

 

[Misfit Toy]

Is it just me or does the goalpost that those who are against health care just keep moving? First it was: We will become a completely socialist nation. Then we moved to: There will be no insurance except for government run insurance and Obama will decide what our doctors will do to us. Now it's: UHC may hurt some of the private insurance companies.

Every time UHC is challenged the challenger just has to keep changing the extremes because, quite frankly, they don't have a leg to stand on when this country's current healthcare system is in the shitter.

Agreed. It's like this:

And yes, that's my last cartoon on the subject.