First the cops...now the postal system

[buzzknox]

Dissenting opinions aren't being requested. LIES are.

And determining where the difference between the two is will be left to the gov't. I've heard references to the actual language of Section 102 being called "lies", so I guess we know where the line is.

The funny thing is that gov't action that causes a chilling effect on speech is prohibited by the First Amendment, even if it's not outright censorship. I guarantee this action will be the subject of quite a few Con Law classes this semester, and (hopefully) a court case or two.

 

[Squiggy]

No.

"Government death panel" is a lie. "Choosing how to die" is a lie. Its a simple concept and yet ironically the report that Obama is looking for "dissenters" is yet another lie that some people beleive.

It doesn't do a damned thing to the first amendment as no one is going to be charged with anything. Lie all you want. Start as many chain mails full of nothing but insane rantings because there's enough suckers in this country that will beleive anything even though they're more than enough evidence to the contrary.

The emails are being sent in so the they can be addressed. Who knew that openness in government would be taken to poorly by so many uneducated fucks?

 

[cultcross]

Yes, when people want the best of the best in healthcare they come here.

So you keep repeating - I have demonstrated this cannot possibly be true, yet you keep repeating it. Care to show some evidence? Or does saying it a lot make it true?

As far as UHC paying for me I don't want it to. Some of us have too much self-respect for that.

You have too much self-respect to pay into an insurance program which then pays out for your healthcare costs when necessary? Tell me, how is it you pay for your healthcare now? Because unless you pay 100% out-of-pocket, you are already doing that.

Or do you mean that, should you fall ill or lose your job, you wish your wife and however many children you currently claim to have to potentially have to live through your bankruptcy rather than accept help from insurance you have been paying into your whole working life? How noble.

 

[Scout101]

^exactly. You either use every penny you put into the system (tough to do, trying to calculate out that you pay X in premiums every month, so need to make Y number of doctor visits, perscriptions etc to break perfectly even), or you already pay for other people's health care.

And if you've every been hurt, or had a child (you claim to have a kid, yes?), then you've probably COST the system more than you've put into it, and thus are living off of the government teat.

One hospital visit pretty much wipes out a lifetime of premiums, so which is it?

What your "self respect" makes you do with this information is up to you. If you stand by your convictions, it would appear that you need to cancel your health insurance at once. If it's all talk, you'll likely keep the insurance, because it benefits you at someone else's expense.

 

[SeerSGB]

^exactly. You either use every penny you put into the system (tough to do, trying to calculate out that you pay X in premiums every month, so need to make Y number of doctor visits, perscriptions etc to break perfectly even), or you already pay for other people's health care.

And if you've every been hurt, or had a child (you claim to have a kid, yes?), then you've probably COST the system more than you've put into it, and thus are living off of the government teat.

One hospital visit pretty much wipes out a lifetime of premiums, so which is it?

What your "self respect" makes you do with this information is up to you. If you stand by your convictions, it would appear that you need to cancel your health insurance at once. If it's all talk, you'll likely keep the insurance, because it benefits you at someone else's expense.

Well group (Employer) insurance works the same way: The more people pay into it, the less YOU pay for various medical procedures. UHC is just taking that same ideal to a national level.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

Except that it isn't how it is. UHC covers far more worldwide than the entire US population, yet only a small number cross your borders for treatment. Only those people want the best care immediately?

How about paying for everyone's well being? You are aware that you, as part of everyone, are included in that? It's a nice straw man, this anti-UHC idea that you are simply paying for everybody else, but it isn't the case.

I know you're... on vacation from TNZ but we are currently discussing putting numbers to the amounts we all pay for healthcare. We've concluded that Britons on the average wage pay ~£100/month for full healthcare coverage for themselves (thinking only of ourselves, you'd be so proud); can you beat that? Especially considering if said Briton lost his or her job, their coverage would not change?

Yes, when people want the best of the best in healthcare they come here.

As far as UHC paying for me I don't want it to. Some of us have too much self-respect for that.

So you'll not be taking Medicare or Social Security when you retire then? Those are both socialist programs as well.

No, I will not. But at least you admit this would be a socialist program.

 

[SeerSGB]

Yes, when people want the best of the best in healthcare they come here.

As far as UHC paying for me I don't want it to. Some of us have too much self-respect for that.

So you'll not be taking Medicare or Social Security when you retire then? Those are both socialist programs as well.

No, I will not. But at least you admit this would be a socialist program.

And you say that like it's a bad thing? Hell, if anything 'Trek has taught us that socialism is the future.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

^exactly. You either use every penny you put into the system (tough to do, trying to calculate out that you pay X in premiums every month, so need to make Y number of doctor visits, perscriptions etc to break perfectly even), or you already pay for other people's health care.

And if you've every been hurt, or had a child (you claim to have a kid, yes?), then you've probably COST the system more than you've put into it, and thus are living off of the government teat.

One hospital visit pretty much wipes out a lifetime of premiums, so which is it?

What your "self respect" makes you do with this information is up to you. If you stand by your convictions, it would appear that you need to cancel your health insurance at once. If it's all talk, you'll likely keep the insurance, because it benefits you at someone else's expense.

Please explain again how Joe Deadbeat downing a 40 at 9am is paying for my healthcare? Maybe you'll feel differently when you are married (you claim to have a fiance, yes?) and have a family to support. Maybe not...

 

[TheLonelySquire]

So you'll not be taking Medicare or Social Security when you retire then? Those are both socialist programs as well.

No, I will not. But at least you admit this would be a socialist program.

And you say that like it's a bad thing? Hell, if anything 'Trek has taught us that socialism is the future.

Yeah, it's a very bad thing.

 

[SeerSGB]

^exactly. You either use every penny you put into the system (tough to do, trying to calculate out that you pay X in premiums every month, so need to make Y number of doctor visits, perscriptions etc to break perfectly even), or you already pay for other people's health care.

And if you've every been hurt, or had a child (you claim to have a kid, yes?), then you've probably COST the system more than you've put into it, and thus are living off of the government teat.

One hospital visit pretty much wipes out a lifetime of premiums, so which is it?

What your "self respect" makes you do with this information is up to you. If you stand by your convictions, it would appear that you need to cancel your health insurance at once. If it's all talk, you'll likely keep the insurance, because it benefits you at someone else's expense.

Please explain again how Joe Deadbeat downing a 40 at 9am is paying for my healthcare? Maybe you'll feel differently when you are married (you claim to have a fiance, yes?) and have a family to support. Maybe not...

How is paying a premium to the govt. any different than paying a premium to a private carrier-- other than the govt. option costing less out of the family finances than the private carrier, and actually offering coverage for the members of the family that can't get coverage any other way.

 

[Mr. B]

The emails are being sent in so the they can be addressed. Who knew that openness in government would be taken to poorly by so many uneducated fucks?

...and what a great job Obama is doing.

At the recent "town hall," Obama said "...and somehow it's gotten spun into this idea of "death panels." I am not in favor of that."

"I am not in favor of that." Is that the best he can do? Really? Where's the teleprompter?

 

[Robert Maxwell]

The emails are being sent in so the they can be addressed. Who knew that openness in government would be taken to poorly by so many uneducated fucks?

...and what a great job Obama is doing.

At the recent "town hall," Obama said "...and somehow it's gotten spun into this idea of "death panels." I am not in favor of that."

"I am not in favor of that." Is that the best he can do? Really? Where's the teleprompter.

Since people apparently can't "get it" otherwise, he should switch to firmer language.

"Death panels? Are you fucking insane? There will be no goddamn death panels, you deranged lunatic."

 

[Squiggy]

The emails are being sent in so the they can be addressed. Who knew that openness in government would be taken to poorly by so many uneducated fucks?

...and what a great job Obama is doing.

At the recent "town hall," Obama said "...and somehow it's gotten spun into this idea of "death panels." I am not in favor of that."

"I am not in favor of that." Is that the best he can do? Really? Where's the teleprompter?

That's not all he said. Who fed you that line?

"There are some things I've been hearing lately that we need to dispose of. The rumor that's been circulating around lately is, the House of Representatives somehow voted for death panels that will basically pull the plug on Grandma 'cause we've decided it's too expensive to let her live anymore."

There you go. And bonus points for bringing up the teleprompter meme. Have you been waiting all week to whip that gem out?

 

[Mr. B]

Great... I guess you added context or whatever... but Obama doesn't even bother to deny "death panels" are proposed... he just says there's a rumor and he's "not in favor" of them.

Oh and here's where I "got that line."
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/08/obama-healthcare-transcript-new-hampshire.html

 

[Squiggy]

Then you left out...

Well, the -- I've seen some of those signs. (Laughter.) Let me just be specific about some things that I've been hearing lately that we just need to dispose of here. The rumor that's been circulating a lot lately is this idea that somehow the House of Representatives voted for "death panels" that will basically pull the plug on grandma because we've decided that we don't -- it's too expensive to let her live anymore. (Laughter.) And there are various -- there are some variations on this theme. It turns out that I guess this arose out of a provision in one of the House bills that allowed Medicare to reimburse people for consultations about end-of-life care, setting up living wills, the availability of hospice, et cetera. So the intention of the members of Congress was to give people more information so that they could handle issues of end-of-life care when they're ready, on their own terms. It wasn't forcing anybody to do anything. This is I guess where the rumor came from.
The irony is that actually one of the chief sponsors of this bill originally was a Republican -- then House member, now senator, named Johnny Isakson from Georgia -- who very sensibly thought this is something that would expand people's options. And somehow it's gotten spun into this idea of "death panels."

and...

So just I want to -- (applause.) I want to clear the air here. Now, in fairness, the underlying argument I think has to be addressed, and that is people's concern that if we are reforming the health care system to make it more efficient, which I think we have to do, the concern is that somehow that will mean rationing of care, right? -- that somehow some government bureaucrat out there will be saying, well, you can't have this test or you can't have this procedure because some bean-counter decides that this is not a good way to use our health care dollars. And this is a legitimate concern, so I just want to address this.
We do think that systems like Medicare are very inefficient right now, but it has nothing to do at the moment with issues of benefits. The inefficiencies all come from things like paying $177 billion to insurance companies in subsidies for something called Medicare Advantage that is not competitively bid, so insurance companies basically get a $177 billion of taxpayer money to provide services that Medicare already provides. And it's no better -- it doesn't result in better health care for seniors. It is a giveaway of $177 billion.
Now, think about what we could do with $177 billion over 10 years. I don't think that's a good use of money. I would rather spend that money on making sure that Lori can have coverage, making sure that people who don't have health insurance get some subsidies, than I would want to be subsidizing insurance companies. (Applause.)
Another way of putting this is right now insurance companies are rationing care. They are basically telling you what's covered and what's not. They're telling you: We'll cover this drug, but we won't cover that drug; you can have this procedure, or, you can't have that procedure. So why is it that people would prefer having insurance companies make those decisions, rather than medical experts and doctors figuring out what are good deals for care and providing that information to you as a consumer and your doctor so you can make the decisions?
So I just want to be very clear about this. I recognize there is an underlying fear here that people somehow won't get the care they need. You will have not only the care you need, but also the care that right now is being denied to you -- only if we get health care reform. That's what we're fighting for. (Applause.)

If you're going to bitch that he didn't give a long enough answer to a question that shouldn't be asked (because it's fucking stupid to beleive such a thing), you should probably read the rest of his answer especially since the question wasn't about "death panels" specifically.

 

[Mr. B]

I didn't say his answer wasn't long enough. I'd be one of the last people to suggest Obama needs to talk more. It would be better to get short, concise answers so people can ask more questions rather than letting him ramble on during these "town halls" and press conferences. It also helps to answer the question asked. IN the case of that big block of text you pasted, the question was...

Q I saw -- as I was walking in, I saw a lot of signs outside saying mean things about reforming health care. How do kids know what is true, and why do people want a new system that can -- that help more of us?

Obama didn't even answer the question asked.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

^exactly. You either use every penny you put into the system (tough to do, trying to calculate out that you pay X in premiums every month, so need to make Y number of doctor visits, perscriptions etc to break perfectly even), or you already pay for other people's health care.

And if you've every been hurt, or had a child (you claim to have a kid, yes?), then you've probably COST the system more than you've put into it, and thus are living off of the government teat.

One hospital visit pretty much wipes out a lifetime of premiums, so which is it?

What your "self respect" makes you do with this information is up to you. If you stand by your convictions, it would appear that you need to cancel your health insurance at once. If it's all talk, you'll likely keep the insurance, because it benefits you at someone else's expense.

Please explain again how Joe Deadbeat downing a 40 at 9am is paying for my healthcare? Maybe you'll feel differently when you are married (you claim to have a fiance, yes?) and have a family to support. Maybe not...

How is paying a premium to the govt. any different than paying a premium to a private carrier-- other than the govt. option costing less out of the family finances than the private carrier, and actually offering coverage for the members of the family that can't get coverage any other way.

It's different in the respect that it's not the role of government. It makes it larger and more intrusive into people's lives. Yes we need reform of healthcare and it needs to be made affordable for everyone.

 

[cultcross]

but Obama doesn't even bother to deny "death panels" are proposed... http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/08/obama-healthcare-transcript-new-hampshire.html

Yeah, that doesn't need denying. To do so would be a criminal waste of oxygen.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

The emails are being sent in so the they can be addressed. Who knew that openness in government would be taken to poorly by so many uneducated fucks?

...and what a great job Obama is doing.

At the recent "town hall," Obama said "...and somehow it's gotten spun into this idea of "death panels." I am not in favor of that."

"I am not in favor of that." Is that the best he can do? Really? Where's the teleprompter?

Correct. But he IS in favor of wiping out private sector insurance as he's said on many occassions.

 

[Kirk's_Tights]

My dad has ben a postal worker here in Canada for 40 years. I went with him to bring your kids to work day when I was in grade 8 and it OWNED.

Seriously, there are some shitty things that come with being a postal worker but the good heavily outweighs the bad. You get to spend time outside in awesome weather, people on your route give you free food and drinks (unless everyone on your route is a dick), they used to go on strike practically every month so free pay....the list goes on

He works at a different station now in a different area but when I went with him, he was delivering on the Harbourfront in Toronto. That was the most fun I had ever had. We ate at the park, a fucking duck stole my hot dog, we went to the underground mall....it was an amazing experience.

Within the next few years, they are getting some new things like instead of manually sorting the mail, they are getting machines to do it so they can just walk in, grab their mail, put it in their bag and start their route. Also, new postal bags. Instead of the one shoulder, they are getting it so you put it on like a backpack and both sides have smaller bags to make it easier.


My dad had been chased by dogs and even bitten by a snake but loves his job. My brother got into it a few years ago and loves it. Fuck, for the money they get paid, I'll do it.