First look at Klingons in 'Star Trek: Discovery'?

[Hela]

Just a heads up to anyone considering on tapping that 'Spikes of Villainy' link. The linked webpage has some horrendously aggressive ads. On mobile, you will be redirected, bombarded with pop ups, or have the page randomly reformat itself to make you hit one by accident.

No idea if it's as bad on PC or with ad blockers though.

 

[Baxten]

A genre is defined by its common theme.

An easy and reliable way to prove this is to do a search for "science fiction armor" in a search engine's "images" section and see the common visual theme it presents. Then do a search for "fantasy armor" by the same means. This has nothing to do with being "generic", this has to do with common themes.

By definition, science fiction, as a genre, is primarily about science and technology of the future. If an armor looks like it could have been made in medieval times or fits in a fantasy common theme, it's not a good science fiction. Furthermore, Star Trek is not a space opera.

Additionally, people might want to read the following article: "Gaming's 19 most impractical suits of armor: A metalworker weighs in". Although it's from "gaming", the point still applies to fictional genres:

As we've now learned, spikes and mobility don't mix. . . .​

Finally, see "Spiked Armor" (starting at 56 seconds).

Just because some Star Trek faction is "alien", does not mean that all sensibility should be thrown out of airlock. Most Star Trek aliens look like humanoids, so some similarity in armor and clothing makes sense.

It's amazing what Star Trek fanatics will try to justify.

 

[Hela]

'Genre' is defined by providers and organisers whacking labels onto products. Not some noobs on the internet trying to score nerd points with each other.

And 'Justifying' implies active effort. I find that 'Apathy' more than adequately covers my lack of fucks.

 

[Nerys Myk]

An easy and reliable way to prove this is to do a search for "science fiction armor" in a search engine's "images" section and see the common visual theme it presents. Then do a search for "fantasy armor" by the same means. This has nothing to do with being "generic", this has to do with common themes.

Science Fiction has been around for well over a Century. It's not limited to current "themes".

By definition, science fiction, as a genre, is primarily about science and technology of the future. If an armor looks like it could have been made in medieval times or fits in a fantasy common theme, it's not a good science fiction. Furthermore, Star Trek is not a space opera.

What defines "good science fiction" has little to do with armor.
Star Trek is totally Space Opera.

Additionally, people might want to read the following article: "Gaming's 19 most impractical suits of armor: A metalworker weighs in". Although it's from "gaming", the point still applies to fictional genres:

Any article with a title that includes a number always gets a pass, along with "You wont believe X's IQ"and "You should see how X looks now."
Games are real?

Just because some Star Trek faction is "alien", does not mean that all sensibility should be thrown out of airlock. Most Star Trek aliens look like humanoids, so some similarity in armor and clothing makes sense.

Humans have developed a wide range of clothing over several millenniums, its absurd to think an alien society's sense of style would duplicate humanity's or especially one faction of humanity.

 

[Hela]

Admittedly, FemShep leading a Trek series would be nice. Horribly out of place, but probably in an entertainingly bonkers kind of way. Like most of the comics cross overs.

IDW Nu-Khan is a Red Lantern. For realz.

 

[Serveaux]

A genre is defined by its common theme.

Nope.

 

[Baxten]

I should, once and for all, tackle this nonsense someone posted earlier:

What difference does their style of armor make? How does that negate the "science fiction" setting? Being impractical or dangerous has never done that before.

Since when has impractical and dangerous spiked armor ever made for good science fiction, if for science fiction at all? Putting it in a fictional setting and calling it science fiction does not automatically make the genre.

Furthermore, there is something called sensible design. Is Star Trek telling people that a technologically advanced warp-capable faction of essentially, humanoids, even if they have some resemblance to insectoids, learned how to build starships with warp drives, but in all their time of advancement they never figured out the impracticality of spiked armor? Rubbish! And rubbish makes a bad science fiction.

 

[Hela]

'Bad' science fiction.

No, don't ask me why that's the cover. I don't get it either.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I should, once and for all, tackle this nonsense someone posted earlier:



Since when has impractical and dangerous spiked armor ever made for good science fiction, if for science fiction at all? Putting it in a fictional setting and calling it science fiction does not automatically make the genre.

Furthermore, there is something called sensible design. Is Star Trek telling people that a technologically advanced warp-capable faction of essentially, humanoids, even if they have some resemblance to insectoids, learned how to build starships with warp drives, but in all their time of advancement they never figured out the impracticality of spiked armor? Rubbish! And rubbish makes a bad science fiction.

It's FICTION in a visual medium. It doesn't have to be safe, sensible, practical or realistic. The armor being spiked or not has little to do with it being good or bad SF. Science Fiction is a broad genre. It can can include armored characters and naked characters. It's not all ray guns, space ships and battle armor. SF can be about a guy sitting alone in room.

Star Trek doesn't care about armor. It's not the focus of the franchise. Its just a piece of visual information that says the character is from Species X. That Species X has spiked armor and warp drives is irrelevant to the writers, the actors, the costumers and 99.9% of the audience.

 

[INACTIVEUSS Einstein]

I don't care that much about the armor that provoked this topic, but I feel that people are being dismissive of what Baxten is trying to say.

It isn't actually irrelevant to 99.9% of the audience as some claim since it forms part of Star Trek's general thematic identity, which is noticed subconsciously by all viewers and serves to define it's philosophy to them, simply by acting consistently with it's values. Just as how Star Wars subconsciously denotes despotism/fascism by the removal of colour (the Empire is black, grey and white), Star Trek's grounding in the natural sciences and enlightenment values entail restraint in the presentation of villains and their cultures, which a viewer consumes without knowing, leading to a setting that feels internally believable to a greater degree than some others.

I would have thought that was fairly obvious. Consider The Devil in the Dark and note how fundamentally different it's assumptions are from most TV, where the Horta would be a subject of irrational horror, presented as mindlessly aggressive, and hunted as a threat - instead it's a part of the natural ecosystem of it's world, no more scary or unnatural with the correct understanding, than a wolf or lion. This isn't a ball and chain, but ignore the franchise's identity too often, and it wont be anything worth watching anymore.

 

[Refuge]

Cannot see the image at all

 

[fireproof78]

I should, once and for all, tackle this nonsense someone posted earlier:



Since when has impractical and dangerous spiked armor ever made for good science fiction, if for science fiction at all? Putting it in a fictional setting and calling it science fiction does not automatically make the genre.

Furthermore, there is something called sensible design. Is Star Trek telling people that a technologically advanced warp-capable faction of essentially, humanoids, even if they have some resemblance to insectoids, learned how to build starships with warp drives, but in all their time of advancement they never figured out the impracticality of spiked armor? Rubbish! And rubbish makes a bad science fiction.

And human beings have never had "rubbish" designs in their history...ever.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Star Trek's grounding in the natural sciences and enlightenment values entail restraint in the presentation of villains and their cultures, which a viewer consumes without knowing, leading to a setting that feels internally believable to a greater degree than some others.

Come on, the original Klingon make up was one step removed from Fu Manchu. The TNG Klingons rapidly devolved into OTT caricature
Sorry,but God like aliens and Evil A Is do not a grounding in natural sciences make.

For every Horta there is a Salt Vampire.

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

Movie/TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT Klingon armor. Make of that what you will.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Klingons are no strangers to spikes.

They even wear them on their boots!

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

They even wear them on their boots!

Isn't that for their toe/foot claw though?

 

[Hela]

Where's that from?

 

[fireproof78]

Come on, the original Klingon make up was one step removed from Fu Manchu. The TNG Klingons rapidly devolved into OTT caricature
Sorry,but God like aliens and Evil A Is do not a grounding in natural sciences make.

For every Horta there is a Salt Vampire.

For every "rational" choice made, there was one motivated by cost, appearance or speed that it could be done.
As much as Star Trek wants to project that it is always consistent in world development, it's still a film/TV production, and is carried by principles of design, as well as practicality.

Klingons are no strangers to spikes.

They even wear them on their boots!

That's actually how Colonel Chang lost his eye.

 

[shapeshifter]

Where's that from?

It's not canon, at least not yet.

IN TNG Heart of Glory, the Enterprise picks up 3 Klingons who eventually get thrown in the brig where they secretly assemble some random parts of their uniforms, including a toe hook, into a disruptor. No 'bony toe hook' was visible sticking up through the boot.

 

[Kor]

Spiky armor on aliens is just fine for Trek, especially as aliens should not think the same way we do.

Star Trek is "lite" Science Fiction, at best. Let's not try to make it into more than what it really is. It's a very enjoyable space opera franchise. But if I want true science fiction, I'll turn to literary hard SF.

Kor