First look at Klingons in 'Star Trek: Discovery'?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by JacksonArcher, Feb 11, 2017.

  1. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Exactly so. Star Trek is softer science fiction, and has been for years. I see no reason to twist and contort it in to a mold that it isn't suited for.
     
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  2. Baxten

    Baxten Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    That was only for their feet, not hands, and it's not canon.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Check this discussion: "What is the spike on Klingon boots for?"

    How exactly would you get the boot on over the horn? Unless you can flatten/straighten the horn (like you can fingers or toes) or the laces/zipper goes all the way down to the horn, anyone who has tried to dress an uncooperative child will tell you it won't work. – Mr.Mindor

    Even if it were canon, it does not explain their spiked knuckle gloves. Besides, what about the whole concept art, just as an excuse to have them look spiked? If they did have natural talons like that, they would want to cover them up to protect them, so that they wouldn't accidentally spike each other and catch on things. They are a technologically advanced warp-capable faction after all.

    Finally, the faction in the leaked photo would have figured out that spikes or talons would not only be dangerous to each other but also catch a weapon's blow, causing them more harm, so they still would have learned to cover them up. Either way, it does not make sense to have them stick out like that. :)
     
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  3. MFB

    MFB Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Oh, it is! You can spot that graphic in Antaak's Laboratory in the Enterprise episodes "Affliction" and "Divergence".
    http://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/4x15/affliction_265.jpg

    (Of course that klingon warrior wears the wrong uniform for the 22nd century but the graphic is only visible in the background.)
     
  4. Captain of the USS Averof

    Captain of the USS Averof Commodore Commodore

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    It was designed by Dan Curry, visual effects supervisor on TNG and visual effects producer on DS9, VOY and ENT. (Dan Curry is also the designer of the bat'leth and mek'leth and creator of their associated martial art form.) The specific Klingon poster was sold as a Trek movies/TNG poster and as @MFB has already stated, was shown on screen in ENT. You can also see it in Memory Alpha, the Star Trek canon wiki:
    http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Klingon
     
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  5. Tosk

    Tosk Admiral Admiral

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    So it's both canon and not at the same time?
     
  6. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Schrodinger's Klingon.
     
  7. Baxten

    Baxten Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Too blurry to see the talon. Plus, the uniform is from the century when Klingons were shown not to have talons on their feet.
     
  8. Ing3nu

    Ing3nu Ensign Red Shirt

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    Although Fuller did say he'd mapped out the entire first season, and CBS has confirmed they are following that plan for S1 (though without him on board, things are sure to shift.)
     
  9. Jim Fallope

    Jim Fallope Cadet Newbie

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    For me, Star Trek has always been metaphor and allegory. The Klingons represent humankind's baser instincts. When they change an alien race's appearance to something less human I feel it reduces my ability to connect with that character's humanity. I grew up watching TOS in the 80's, skipped TMP, so I wasn't introduced to "new " klingons until ST: III. A to first I was taken aback by their look, but eventually over the years (the subsequent original cast films, TNG, DS9, ENT, etc.) I became comfortable with them (probably in no small part due to Michael Dorn's nuanced and human portrayal of Worf). The Into Darkness Klingons were horrible, and now it seems as if we've moved further down the road of not being able to relate to these characters. Klingons are Soviet power brokers and Ancient Samurai and Roman Patrician factions vying for power.
     
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  10. Serveaux

    Serveaux Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    Meh, who remembers the Soviets?
     
  11. BillJ

    BillJ The King of Kings Admiral

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    I thought they were the best since TOS. So, obviously mileage varies.
     
  12. Serveaux

    Serveaux Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    Yeah, loved the STID Klingons.
     
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  13. Kor

    Kor Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I third that emotion. I found them quite menacing.

    Kor
     
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  14. { Emilia }

    { Emilia } Cute but deadly Moderator

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    The look was okay but the Klingons in STID were just props, weren't they? It's not like they served any purpose other than "generic violent people" because they didn't get any further characterization and there was no Klingon individual standing out.

    An angry animal would've worked just as well for that superficial kind of menace.
     
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  15. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The Klingon scene in STID was, hands down, one of my favorite scenes. It was a good, if brief, introduction to the tension between the Federation and the Klingons. I had really hoped that the Klingons would get more screen time in Beyond, but that might be in 4.

    Regardless, still an outstanding scene in a good film.
     
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  16. Baxten

    Baxten Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Whatever metaphors and allegories Star Trek might involve, technologically advanced warp-capable factions should look futuristic. Otherwise, Star Trek is a failure as science fiction.

    Let's look at the depiction of Klingons throughout Star Trek:
    • TOS: Chainmail vests for males and chainmail dresses for females (i.e. medieval).
    • TNG/DS9/VOY and pre-Kelvin universe: Fur (in environmentally controlled starships?), leather, metal, spiked knuckle gloves and spiked boots. Bad teeth. Bad smell.
    • ENT: A variation on TNG/DS9/VOY and pre-Kelvin universe.
    • Kelvin Universe: Medieval-looking helmets. Reckless attack with ridiculously exaggerated melee weapons against ranged opponents.
    Memory Alpha: Depicting Klingons

    Richard Arnold remembered, "Gene was really bothered by the Klingons in VI [....] [They] were, in his words, 'too civilized, too decent, too much of the good guys in the story.' [....]" (Star Trek Movie Memories, hardback ed., p. 289)​

    From Star Trek Writers/Directors Guide (The Original Series):

    Is the starship U.S.S. Enterprise a military vessel?

    Yes, but only semi-military in practice -- omitting features which are heavily authoritarian. [. . .] We avoid [. . .] annoying medieval leftovers. . . .​

    Once again, TOS Klingons were portrayed as wearing fine chainmail-like vests for males. Mara, a Klingon female, wore a chainmail-like dress.

    Memory Alpha: Kurak


    Kurak was played by Tricia O'Neil, who applied a pre-existing knowledge of Klingons while playing the role. She said about the character, "I knew the difficulty this particular Klingon was involved in because she was advancing. She had the great weight on her shoulders of being intelligent, of being a scientist, and she was crossing barriers. But she was still a Klingon, so she was very… not savage, but physical, where a lot of muscle was still involved, even though she was crossing over into being a scientist. . . ."

    That's from an interview conducted by CBS on the official Star Trek website.

    Memory Alpha: Bat'leth

    Introduced in "Reunion", the bat'leth was originally inspired by comments from Worf actor Michael Dorn, as he wanted his character's fighting style to be more martial arts than barbarian. . . . (Star Trek: Communicator issue 114, p. 59)​

    Looking at the actors' voiced thought processes, can you guess what "pre-existing knowledge of Klingons" was given to them as a background?

    Major-role actors are usually given detailed descriptions of characters and alien species they play along with dialogue lines, especially because they are not expected to be familiar with the franchise.

    There's even an episode titled "The Savage Curtain", written by Gene Roddenberry himself. The episode introduces Kahless, a major historical Klingon figure, for the first time, as one of the representatives of "evil". Strangely, Roddenberry did not include Hitler as part of the side of evil, even though he started World War II, with his ideology being based on the hatred of humanity.

    ENT: "Bounty"

    SKALAAR: [. . .] I've learned never to cross a Klingon.
    ARCHER: It must be difficult working for people like them.
    SKALAAR: I don't answer to those savages. I work for myself.
    ARCHER: That's not how it looks from in here.​

    DS9: "Trials and Tribble-ations"

    WADDLE: [. . .] After six months, I was hoping the Klingons would invade. At least they know how to make coffee, even if they are foul-smelling barbarians. Sorry [meant for Worf].​

    Memory Alpha: Depicting Klingons


    Rick Stratton [. . .] admitted, "I wanted to get an extra day's pay, so I said, 'How about if we make some messed-up teeth for these guys?' It would save time staining their teeth and make them look like they had been chewing on bones or something, but it was all because I wanted another day's pay!" (Star Trek Magazine issue 172, p. 60)

    [. . .]

    Williams explained about herself and Bryant, "We even discussed, I think, 'What do Klingons brush their teeth with?' And I think Todd said, 'They don't brush their teeth.' That was brilliant!" ("That Klingon Couple", Star Trek V: The Final Frontier (Special Edition) DVD & Blu-ray)​

    This is why Star Trek reeks of manifest destiny.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2017
  17. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    Neat.
     
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  18. Hela

    Hela Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Pity he's said it all before, Near literally.

    Today.

    Thursday

    Someone got up to 'repetition principle', then decided to skip the rest of debate class.:lol:

    That, or the bots are getting impressively complex, and we should start building bomb shelters for the oncoming Skynet.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2017
  19. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    “I don’t understand a word you say, but I’ll fight to the death your right to confuse me.”
     
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  20. Kor

    Kor Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    You posted a spiel of this kind last week.
    I still find that conclusion just as unfathomable as I did the other day. :thumbdown:

    Kor