I don't remember hearing that. A different universe from what? ENT? Or the first two NuTrek movies?
http://simonpegg.net/2016/07/11/a-word-about-canon/
Simon Pegg said:
With the Kelvin timeline, we are not entirely beholden to existing canon, this is an alternate reality and, as such is full of new and alternate possibilities. “BUT WAIT!” I hear you brilliant and beautiful super Trekkies cry, “Canon tells us, Hikaru Sulu was born before the Kelvin incident, so how could his fundamental humanity be altered? Well, the explanation comes down to something very Star Treky; theoretical, quantum physics and the less than simple fact that time is not linear. Sure, we experience time as a contiguous series of cascading events but perception and reality aren’t always the same thing. Spock’s incursion from the Prime Universe created a multidimensional reality shift. The rift in space/time created an entirely new reality in all directions, top to bottom, from the Big Bang to the end of everything. As such this reality was, is and always will be subtly different from the Prime Universe. I don’t believe for one second that Gene Roddenberry wouldn’t have loved the idea of an alternate reality (Mirror, Mirror anyone?). This means, and this is absolutely key, the Kelvin universe can evolve and change in ways that don’t necessarily have to follow the Prime Universe at any point in history, before or after the events of Star Trek ‘09, it can mutate and subvert, it is a playground for the new and the progressive and I know in my heart, that Gene Roddenberry would be proud of us for keeping his ideals alive. Infinite diversity in infinite combinations, this was his dream, that is our dream, it should be everybody’s.
Apparently, Pegg thinks that Nero's interference (caused by his arrival in 2233) somehow caused changes to ripple into the past as well as the future. Which does not make a ton of sense, logically and causally speaking.
Hypothetically, the 22nd century should be the same, since the new timeline hadn't split off.
On the contrary, it makes perfect sense logically and causally. Well, at least as much so as the idea of time travel from the future into the past altering things from that point forward does in the first place. If post-2233 events are different in the
Kelvin Timeline, then of course pre-2233 events can potentially be as well, because we've seen any number of time travel events from the 23rd-31st centuries of the so-called Prime Timeline as previously depicted shape and influence (and sometimes directly cause, as with the Borg's
First Contact pogo paradox) the 20th-22nd centuries to be as they were/are. You can't change that future without opening up the real possibility of changing the past as well, because they are inextricably locked in a loop. (Rather like discussions about the matter here, it seems.
)
One person whose life has
definitely been significantly changed is Kirk, whose Prime counterpart was explicitly one of the most meddlesome (or should that be
influential) time-travel menaces ever known according to "Trials and Tribble-ations" (DS9)! And he is far from alone.
That's something I'd prefer to ignore.
Unlikely. The 'butterfly effect' would pretty much dictate that the Kelvin 24th century would be completely different. Probably none of the TNG characters would even be born.
So, how do
you choose reconcile these two with each other? Just curious. It's all made up fun, of course, and not meant to be thought about
too hard, after all.
Odd and baseless speculation. Why
should we think Scotty would be mistaken about anything relating to the
Franklin?
It's likelier that he falsely thought Chekov took part in the mission when in fact it was Chirpov all along. He knows his spacecraft, this is a stated Star Trek fact. People? Probably not so much, as this is not a stated Star Trek fact.
Well, he did seem to think the
Bonaventure was "the first ship to have warp drive installed" in "The Time Trap" (TAS)!
But of course, maybe he meant the first
starship. Or first
Starfleet ship. Or something else.
Might be she began construction earlier. Where would the 2149 date come from?
Archer mentions in First Flight that they waited for the NX Delta to successfully break the warp 3 barrier, then a year later the keel was laid beginning the NX-01's construction. That works out at early 2149, making 2151 a two year build window. The NX-02 was started after Enterprise vacated the shipyard and meant to launch 2 years later in 2153 (then gets delayed for over a year).
I make it out to be 2150, and no earlier, by the reference points:
ARCHER: We managed to avoid a court martial, but they grounded us for three months.
T'POL: Still, the NX program continued.
ARCHER: Eventually. The Vulcans had us run every simulation they could think of for over a year before they finally admitted the engine would probably work. Eight months after that, Duvall broke Warp Three in the NX-Delta
. Five years later we laid the keel for Enterprise
. You know the rest.
In "Unexpected" (ENT), which is mid-2151, somewhere between early May ("Fight or Flight" [ENT]) and late July ("Civilization" [ENT]), Archer mentions that he has known Tucker—to whom we see him introduced in "First Flight" (ENT)—"for eight years," placing the latter sometime in 2143. Following Robinson and Archer's unauthorized flight in the NX-
Beta, they were "grounded for three months," and the Vulcans made them run simulations "for over a year" before the project continued. It was "eight months after
that" when Duvall broke Warp Three. Depending on whether the three months of Archer and Robinson's grounding and the twelve-plus months of simulations ran concurrently or consecutively (which isn't clear), it's more than twenty months, or perhaps even more than twenty-three, before Duvall's flight. That places it in 2145. It's "five years later" that NX-01's keel was laid.
2143: Warp 2 barrier broken by Robinson
2145: Warp 3 barrier broken by Duvall ("over a year"
plus 8-11 months after the above)
2150: NX-01 keel laid ("5 years" after Duvall's flight)
So,
Franklin hails from sometime between 2145 (before which Warp Three was the absolute limit for Earth ships) and 2151 (when NX-01 was finally completed, and thus
capable of reaching Warp Four and beyond). Again, that's
if following the same timeline as ENT, which we can't say
for certain is
necessarily the case.
Quite. But "pre-MACO"? What does the ship have to do with the MACO? ST:B suggests the organization was disbanded before the Franklin got her new life as a Federation frontier-pusher.
Not established in the film, so non-binding of course, but lead picture editor Dylan Highsmith
suggested that before being absorbed into Starfleet after the formation of the UFP and the disbanding of the MACO, the
Franklin may have been a MACO ship:
Dylan Highsmith said:
If you want the official explanation on the Franklin and it’s warp factor: it was a M.A.C.O. ship (or a United Earth Starfleet ship that housed M.A.C.O. personnel at times) that predates the NX-01.
When the UFP Starfleet is formed, M.A.C.O. was disbanded and the ship was reclassified as a Starfleet ship [with the USS identifier]. The ship is then “lost” in the early 2160’s.
It was important to everyone that the ship, like Edison, predate the Federation; that thematically, the ship mirrored an earlier time in history and served as a bridge in design between then and the NX-01.
Doug [Jung] and Simon [Pegg] may have worked up something [on an official launch date], but if they did it never made it to script or screen.
Either way it predates the NX-01, and was reclassified after the UFP is formed.
The MACOs weren't directly seen to have any of their own ships in ENT, and their expertise was said to be limited to "simulated combat, all conducted on Earth" according to Malcolm in "Harbinger" (ENT), but at least a few of them did seem to have also undergone some training around the Solar system, at Jupiter Station (Hayes says it's where they developed their improved holographic target practice system/program in the same episode; he also mentions "lunar survival training" but doesn't specify whether that was on an actual moon) and "on the Janus loop" ("The Council" [ENT], involving EV suits). So, since it was an apparent novelty to have MACOs being carried aboard a Starfleet ship in "The Expanse" (ENT), perhaps it's reasonable to think that they had at least this one ship to quickly ferry them around the immediate neighborhood. Archer did say in "Harbinger" that their tech was 2-3 years ahead of Starfleet's at that point.
Possibly. In "Broken Bow", they don't go that fast yet, and by the time of "Fight or Flight", going warp five is no longer newsworthy. The other possibility is that NX-01 broke warp five quite some time before the show began (but after 2149), and the third possibility is that NX-Kappa or some other testbed broke warp five and possibly also warp six some time before the show began (but after 2149).
Taken in context of planning out the course for the mission that lies ahead of them with T'Pol and her Vulcan star charts in "Fight Or Flight" (ENT), I interpret Archer's statement that "we're traveling at Warp Five" to be euphemistic rather than literal at that moment. Why? Because later in "Fallen Hero" (ENT) a big deal is made by Tucker about it only being a Warp Five engine "on paper" and it is only under dramatic duress that she can be gradually coaxed to that speed, all of it played as if this is new ground
in practice for the ship.
As far as ENT is concerned, "breaking the barrier" seems to mean
exceeding rather than simply
reaching the upper limit. The Warp 2 barrier was broken when Robinson achieved Warp
2.1 in the NX-
Alpha in 2143, but Starfleet already had "Warp 2 ships" in service by 2141, such as the
Neptune-class surveyors, according to Tucker in "Singularity" (ENT). The
E.C.S. Fortunate from "Fortunate Son" (ENT) topped out at Warp
1.8, but her captain was looking forward to receiving a "Warp Three engine" as his next step up.
Conversely,
Franklin being the "first Earth ship
capable of Warp Four" might not necessarily mean she had the first Warp Four engine, if there were such a thing. Maybe it was
technically a specially-modified-and-juiced-up Warp Three engine, or a
failed Warp Five engine test article (thus not counting against the NX-01's "first" and "only" one) that was nevertheless still good for speeds well below that threshold, or something else quirky like that. For all we know, since we never saw what it looked like, she could have originally been the NX-
Delta herself, later donated to the MACOs as a training vehicle in anticipation of the next generation of faster ships bringing with it the unavoidable necessity of their eventual integration with Starfleet, since SF wasn't supposed to be the military at first, but sure found out in short order that one would unquestionably be needed out there. Though they could readily have acquired it aboard
Enterprise during the series, or in any number of ways following it, remember that Edison's MACOs were said to have had
lots of off-world combat experience, in contrast to Hayes' initial complement having ostensibly
none at first.
-
MMoM
