Finally Watching Discovery - Was I Supoosed to Hate This?

[XCV330]

last episode, for me, is disappointing, and it does not get better with re-watch, but rather the opposite. I enjoyed season 1 greatly, and will agree with other's, its as good a first season as Trek has been since TOS. But yeah.. that last episode.
It is in part a flaw with serialization because they took too long to wrap up everything. There were too many threads to tie up with not enough time to do so. It might have helped to not have HAD so many threads to begin with. The Klingon thing, from beginning of the season, to the end, was the weak joint, and unfortunately it was integral to everything.

As they won't be as big a factor, I have pretty high hopes that season 2 will improve on that. Season 1 was good enough that 2 doesn't have to improve by much to really impress me.

 

[eschaton]

Yeah, completely bizarre. At least when Burnham gets to change the entire course of the war by tipping off Sarek that genocide is bad, it's because they're trying to give her character the Big, Defining Burnham Moment. It doesn't work for me at all, and comes at a terrible price for Sarek, but I can see why they did it. But wasting all that time with L'Rell in the cell is inexplicable, except as another example of the writers' clumsiness in moving the chess pieces. (Or, hopefully, some terrible behind-the-scenes problems.).

Let's hope they do better for Spock and Pike.

This is an aside, but it reminded me of another issue I had with Discovery related to writing and scripting - how much of the show boiled down to basically two people talking alone to each other in rooms, over and over and over again. Which is ironic, because I think the direction of the action scenes where they existed was by far the best of any Trek series to date.

Of course conversational dyads are an important part of any drama. But in Discovery they were almost invariably the sole method of dialogue, outside of the few bridge scenes. I mean, there were a few cases in the mess hall where Tilly played third wheel to Micheal and Ash, but that was about it. What's worse, so much time was taken on these long two-person discussions (either in empty rooms or with extras standing around as props), which meant that Discovery failed the "show but not tell" rule for good fiction.

 

[feek61]

Regardless of what the vocal, relentless 1%ers are saying . . .

^
Oh brother!

These days people seem to be mesmerized by quality production values and great special effects which STD has of both. I really like the characters in STD even though many times they act really stupid and not in anyway professional. I have no issues with going a different direction than standard Star Trek themes but the thing I can't get over is the horrid, disjointed writing. Regardless of how great it looks (and I love the look) the problem is the writing is terrible! So many of the plots just don't matter and don't get me started on the whole multi-mirror universe episodes; WHY?????

Speaking of the mirror universe; it was fun in TOS but my God, how many times can the writers use that gimmick? Enough is enough already!! Next thing you know they will start giving Spock more siblings . . . oh, wait.

 

[XCV330]

Which is ironic, because I think the direction of the action scenes where they existed was by far the best of any Trek series to date..

Need more scenes of Saru mule-kicking the hell out of people.

 

[EnderAKH]

For the record, the Mirror universe has been used in 14 out of 711 Star Trek episodes, or 1.9%. Q has been in 12, or 1.6%. Personally I don't think 14 out of 711 is "enough already." Any more than Q, the Klingons, Romulans, crazy Admirals, or time travel.

 

[KennyB]

^
Regardless of how great it looks (and I love the look) the problem is the writing is terrible!

OK I am giving them some passes because they inherited a half-ass put together season when Fuller left. Many of the decisions he had made could not be undone at that point. SO I am happy they worked it into something presentable. I am hoping for a much better laid out and executed flow this year.

 

[feek61]

For the record, the Mirror universe has been used in 14 out of 711 Star Trek episodes, or 1.9%. Q has been in 12, or 1.6%. Personally I don't think 14 out of 711 is "enough already." Any more than Q, the Klingons, Romulans, crazy Admirals, or time travel.

Well, I hate Q also but at least he is in the same universe that the show is about; not part of an alternate universe, but to each his own. I would prefer to see a mirror universe series instead of it being continually reintroduced into this universe. It just comes across (to me) as a gimmick and unimaginative story telling. It's easy to have everyone play evil, the hard part is creating multi-dimensional characters (which don't exist in the mirror universe). I tired of the mirror universe after "Mirror, Mirror" because the one dimensional characters are not interesting and not the characters I care about. Again, to each his own.

 

[Refuge]

Well, I hate Q also but at least he is in the same universe that the show is about; not part of an alternate universe, but to each his own. I would prefer to see a mirror universe series instead of it being continually reintroduced into this universe. It just comes across (to me) as a gimmick and unimaginative story telling. It's easy to have everyone play evil, the hard part is creating multi-dimensional characters (which don't exist in the mirror universe). I tired of the mirror universe after "Mirror, Mirror" because the one dimensional characters are not interesting and not the characters I care about. Again, to each his own.

Often the mirror universe is cheesy but when done well it a bit of fun BUT as a one-off. You don't expect a major mirror universe character to cross over and operate within 'our' universe long term. It's like Roger Rabbit or some such cartoon character mingling with the regular crowd. Fine we had Lorca but we seriously were short changed when Georgiou was first killed off and eaten (nice touch - not) and her replacement is some wicked Emperor version. Was it so bad that original Georgiou was a mentor, had rank, was liked, was kind of... human?

 

[Vger23]

^
Oh brother!

These days people seem to be mesmerized by quality production values and great special effects which STD has of both. I really like the characters in STD even though many times they act really stupid and not in anyway professional. I have no issues with going a different direction than standard Star Trek themes but the thing I can't get over is the horrid, disjointed writing. Regardless of how great it looks (and I love the look) the problem is the writing is terrible! So many of the plots just don't matter and don't get me started on the whole multi-mirror universe episodes; WHY?????

Speaking of the mirror universe; it was fun in TOS but my God, how many times can the writers use that gimmick? Enough is enough already!! Next thing you know they will start giving Spock more siblings . . . oh, wait.

Please don't call me "brother"

And if you have some data that indicates that the point I was making; that the show's detractors are in the considerable minority despite being relentlessly vocal, I'd welcome it. Otherwise, you're only sharing your own opinion here. Which is absolutely fine...but don't try to dismiss what I said simply with a cliched rant about "bad writing."

 

[Rahul]

For the record, the Mirror universe has been used in 14 out of 711 Star Trek episodes, or 1.9%. Q has been in 12, or 1.6%. Personally I don't think 14 out of 711 is "enough already." Any more than Q, the Klingons, Romulans, crazy Admirals, or time travel.

The problem is: Out of 14 mirror universe episodes, there have been exactly one and a half good ones: The original "Mirror, Mirror"(TOS), and the second part of ENTs' "In a mirror Darkly, part 2" is about half-good - but that's purely for the schlock- and nostalgia-factor, seeing everyone chewing the scenery and having a faithfull modern recreation of the 60s Trek played straight is kind of amazingly bonkers!

Every other entry has been mediocre at best. So it's really not "too much" MU. It's simply that MU episodes usually come with a BIG downgrade in quality. Whereas Q still had something like one good for every two bland episodes later on.

 

[Lord Garth]

I loved DS9's Mirror Universe episodes in the '90s.* And "Mirror, Mirror" is up there among my favorite TOS episodes. So I didn't consider DSC going into the Mirror Universe to be a demerit.

* Okay, more specifically, I like DS9's first three entries into the Mirror Universe: "Crossover", "Through the Looking Glass", and "Shattered Mirror". That plays like DS9's Official Mirror Universe Trilogy.

When it comes to "Resurrection" where Mirror Bariel shows up in the Prime Universe (so I don't know if I even really count it as a Mirror Universe episode) and the shitty, unnecessary conclusion to the MU Saga that was "The Emperor's New Cloak", not so much. "The Emperor's New Cloak" shows why you don't do a fourth part to a "trilogy". But those are things I don't hold against DSC. DSC wasn't dealing with the baggage of DS9's last two Mirror Universe entries. It had the Terran Empire in its prime (no pun intended).

 

[Jadeb]

I thought the MU eps were way more fun than the tedious Klingon War. But I did wish they hadn’t devoted essentially the entire debut season to covering well-trodden Trek ground. Klingon infighting + long trip to the MU was too much.

Imagine how much cooler it would have been if they could have held the Lorca reveal until season 2.

 

[Vger23]

I thought the MU eps were way more fun than the tedious Klingon War. But I did wish they hadn’t devoted essentially the entire debut season to covering well-trodden Trek ground. Klingon infighting + long trip to the MU was too much.

Imagine how much cooler it would have been if they could have held the Lorca reveal until season 2.

At some level I agree...but I never felt that the show was about the Klingon War, at least not the same way DS9 became about the Doninion War. The war was nothing more than a backdrop for the other stories that were told. I think the issue was Fuller's original vision vs. what was executed after he left. It's part of what makes it all feel somewhat disjointed.

I agree that the MU component was the most entertaining piece of S1, as well as Lethe and M2MtSMGM which were essentially stand-alones.

That said, my favorite episode is probably Into the Forrest I Go, which I suppose was smack in the middle of the war.

 

[Lord Garth]

I thought the MU eps were way more fun than the tedious Klingon War. But I did wish they hadn’t devoted essentially the entire debut season to covering well-trodden Trek ground. Klingon infighting + long trip to the MU was too much.

Imagine how much cooler it would have been if they could have held the Lorca reveal until season 2.

I'm conflicted over this, to be honest.

For me, it depends on how much I end up liking this version of Pike. If I think Pike is a great (temporary) captain for Discovery and he changes the ship for the better, I won't miss having Lorca around. If Pike's not up to snuff, if this version doesn't measure up to Jeff Hunter or Bruce Greenwood's portrayals then I'll probably think, "Maybe they should've kept Lorca, and maybe they should've held off on the reveal..." What I think of whether or not it was a good idea to get rid of Lorca will all depend on how Pike is. And how well does Pike fit in with the crew he's commanding?

I'm thinking every season is a different captain and it goes something like: Lorca --> Pike --> Saru --> Burnham. Wondering out loud. If the intention was to keep Lorca around long-term, then absolutely I think they went through him too fast. If that wasn't the intention, then... well, let's just say the way they portrayed him when they actually got the Mirror Universe made me not sorry to see him go. Not that it takes away from what I thought of the character beforehand. So, unfortunately, there's a lot of "Yes, BUT" when it comes to my thoughts on the subject.

 

[Lord Garth]

Lethe and M2MtSMGM which were essentially stand-alones.

M2MtSMGM. It's a fun acronym. At first glance, it took me about 5-10 seconds to figure out what that stood for. My knee-jerk reaction was, "Wait a minute, I thought MGMT was a band!"

 

[Jadeb]

Just think how cool it could have been, though, if they’d really let the crew (and the audience) warm to Lorca. Have him soften a little over the first two seasons, so that the crew couldn’t help but have a grudging respect for his approach. Then, once we’d all assumed that Isaacs is a permanent cast member, do the big reveal. Instead of being a mustache-twirling villain, Lorca could have been torn between two worlds before opting to carry out his original mission. That, to me, would be a heel-turn much more worthy of Isaacs’ abilities.

 

[Vger23]

Just think how cool it could have been, though, if they’d really let the crew (and the audience) warm to Lorca. Have him soften a little over the first two seasons, so that the crew couldn’t help but have a grudging respect for his approach. Then, once we’d all assumed that Isaacs is a permanent cast member, do the big reveal. Instead of being a mustache-twirling villain, Lorca could have been torn between two worlds before opting to carry out his original mission. That, to me, would be a heel-turn worthy of Isaacs.

Admittedly that would have been awesome, but I'm guessing that Lorca's limited one-season arc had more to do with Isaac's desires and schedule than anything else.

 

[Jadeb]

Admittedly that would have been awesome, but I'm guessing that Lorca's limited one-season arc had more to do with Isaac's desires and schedule than anything else.

Probably, yeah. But he really seems to have liked being on the show, so I hope he wasn’t written out prematurely. The writers did love their shock twists.

Of course, if I’d had my druthers, he’d have stayed permanently as a morally gray captain from the PU.

 

[XCV330]

shoudlve used spoilers sorry. mea culpa.

 

[Lord Garth]

Shit. Hold on a second.

Uhhh, Mysterion, how far along are you? You might want to not read everything we were just talking about.