Finally Watching Discovery - Was I Supoosed to Hate This?

[Rahul]

So, thanks to Blu Ray I am finally watching Discovery. I tried hard to avoid spoilers for the last year or so, but have been aware of all the screaming and gnashing going on here abouts and elsewhere.

Anyways, I'm four episodes in and I'm liking it. Okay, not the best Trek ever - that's still DS9. But, it ain't the worst Trek I've ever seen neither - that's still most of Voyager. But, I've been watching Trek for about 50 years now and have gotten used to having some ups and downs along the way.

Admitted, it's got a different look than I'd expect for a prequel to TOS - but it could sort of follow the look established in Enterprise. Not a big fan of the blingy uniforms, or the yet-another-Klingon-redesign. But those things aside, I'm finding myself entertained and interested to see more. And am loving some of these new characters - especially Tilly and Stamets. And Dog Jones is doing some really interesting stuff with Saru.

Gotta say I'm not entirely sure what all the fuss has been the past year or so, guys. Yeah, it's dong some stuff in a sorta new way, but it still looks like Trek to me.

Nobody should hate it.

Now, to give you a warning: Four or five episodes in is probably the best part of the show. There are still a few good scenes left, but there are some big jump-the-shark moments coming, and the overall conclusion to the season arc is....disappointing to be mild.

That being said: Nothing stops you from enjoying it. Nor should it. I unequivocally like VOY. Not as much as, say, TOS or TNG (or even season 3&4 ENT). And I know there are some real flaws with it, but most of the "hatred" against it is either overblown, or motivated by, let's say, more fundamental grudges. It's not a perfect show - not by any means. But it's one I earnestly enjoyed when it was fresh.

The same is probably the best attitude for DIS.
I harp on the show a lot around here (and for the record, I think it's vastly inferiour to most Trek so far - though S2 and short Treks already look like a BIG improvement) - but that's because it's just so early in, and I genuinely want it to improve. And hell - I wouldn't put so much energy in over-analyzing it so much if there wasn't something deeply interesting me.

 

[Vger23]

Of course you're not supposed to hate it. You're supposed to be entertained by it, or not. That's basically it.

Despite some obvious growing pains with writing and concluding the S1 arc, I found DSC to be the most engaging Trek in first-run since TNG. TNG was the only other first season I made it through as it aired without losing interest so some degree. DSC, flaws and all, kept me coming back and interested every episode.

 

[Smellmet]

I enjoyed it overall. There were elements I didn't care for, FX, klingons, but it's mainly cosmetic issues I have with it, and it sounds like they're changing it up a little for S2. I thought the spore drive was a bit much too and didn't really feel all that necessary to the story. I loved the sets throughout though and I thought the show got better as the season progressed and enjoyed the twists. I'm looking forward the next series.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

It is a good show with some significant flaws.

 

[Mirror Mirror]

It is a good show with some significant flaws.

Like every other star trek

 

[fireproof78]

It's a good show with plenty of room to grow. Right now its biggest hurdle is overcoming preconceived notions about Star Trek.

 

[feek61]

I have no preconceived notions; I simply want good writing and decent stories. IMO, Discovery is more about the look and feel of the show and of course the effects but the stories are not well written at all which is the most disappointing part of the show for me.

 

[ralph]

So, thanks to Blu Ray I am finally watching Discovery. I tried hard to avoid spoilers for the last year or so, but have been aware of all the screaming and gnashing going on here abouts and elsewhere.

Anyways, I'm four episodes in and I'm liking it. Okay, not the best Trek ever - that's still DS9. But, it ain't the worst Trek I've ever seen neither - that's still most of Voyager. But, I've been watching Trek for about 50 years now and have gotten used to having some ups and downs along the way.

Admitted, it's got a different look than I'd expect for a prequel to TOS - but it could sort of follow the look established in Enterprise. Not a big fan of the blingy uniforms, or the yet-another-Klingon-redesign. But those things aside, I'm finding myself entertained and interested to see more. And am loving some of these new characters - especially Tilly and Stamets. And Dog Jones is doing some really interesting stuff with Saru.

Gotta say I'm not entirely sure what all the fuss has been the past year or so, guys. Yeah, it's dong some stuff in a sorta new way, but it still looks like Trek to me.

All series are full of ups and downs.
In my Opinion, the balance is positive.

 

[ralph]

Look, basicly it's simple. There are folk out there who enjoy Star Trek, and like the writing and acting and everything there is to like about a show, or dislike ofcourse. And the fact that it's such a huge universe to play in.

And then there are the hardcore fans who have become so obsessed with what, in their mind's eye, is 'correct' Star Trek, nothing will ever satisfy them unless it's the perfect image they have in their heads.

So no. You're not supposed to hate this. You're supposed to be an openminded adult that isn't fixated on what color a bussardcollecter should be.

I completely agree.

 

[Cyrus]

I like Discovery. Can't wait for the new season, the trailers are great.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Like every other star trek

True, but the flaws are a little bigger than with the first three Treks.

 

[Mirror Mirror]

True, but the flaws are a little bigger than with the first three Treks.

We will disagree, heavily.

 

[Hela]

True, but the flaws are a little bigger than with the first three Treks.

I’d take the first season of DIS over TNG’s and DS9’s any day.

TNG has 25 damn episodes in its first season, and I like exactly 3 1/2 of them. And that’s just ‘enjoy.’ Not ‘consider to be good.’

 

[Refuge]

True, but the flaws are a little bigger than with the first three Treks.

You know the biggest flaw? The other three were still enjoyable, 'Discovery' was an exercise.

 

[Groppler Zorn]

You know the biggest flaw? The other three were still enjoyable, 'Discovery' was an exercise.

Totally agree with this.

DSC is a very well made show production-wise, but the story didn’t engage me sadly. It felt like a slog getting through it. This isn’t a feeling I had with any previous iteration (save possibly Enterprise, and I like Enterprise).

I still think that comparing DSC to earlier Trek first seasons is a double edged sword, though. Those shows were made in a very different era of television, so saying “well earlier treks were uneven” doesn’t really apply in the same way here in my opinion.

We should compare it to other Netflix sci-fi shows made in this decade, I think.

I really enjoyed “Ascension” (gutted they cancelled it) because the story sucked me in. Yet that show got cancelled so what do I know

I also know that comparing DSC to other Netflix shows is a rabbit hole that’s been delved into elsewhere so it might be worth leaving my incoherent comment at that...!

 

[SPCTRE]

Was I Supoosed to Hate This?

that depends, are you a True Fan of Star Trek?

 

[Sakonna]

Found it to be a mixed bag myself, with no real clear line of ‘improvement/worsening.’ It had some good episodes and some bad ones. Some nifty shit, and some outright stupidity. Just like every incarnation of Trek.

And like every incarnation of Trek, I overall enjoyed it.

This sums it up for me as well. Discovery is a deeply flawed show, packed with many shockingly shoddy writing failures. Which I know because I have excitedly watched the entire first season three times. I don't feel as much conflict as many others seem to between "it's a mess!" and "I love it!" Those feelings can go together.

I suppose I was a bit more attached to all the leads than I was compared to some Trek series. Out of your mains, there was no say...Chakotay.

This is also my most crucial factor. Discovery got the cast & characters right. That buys you an enormous amount of leeway in regards to other problems. This is why TNG came together, and VOY never did -- the TNG cast was right, whereas much of the VOY cast flatlined from the first moment of the pilot and went 7 years without exhibiting a blip of life.

I still think that comparing DSC to earlier Trek first seasons is a double edged sword, though. Those shows were made in a very different era of television, so saying “well earlier treks were uneven” doesn’t really apply in the same way here in my opinion.

As much as I say to myself "all Trek shows have messy first seasons", I also heartily second this. "First seasons are always uneven" is a passable defense in a world of 50 shows, not so much in a world of 500.

 

[Michael]

I have no preconceived notions; I simply want good writing and decent stories. IMO, Discovery is more about the look and feel of the show and of course the effects but the stories are not well written at all which is the most disappointing part of the show for me.

Having digested season one and my initial reaction to it over the last couple of months, I can now say that I completely agree with your assessment. The first couple of episodes were strong (I especially liked episode 3, aka the “second pilot”), but after that – and as a complete whole – I was very disappointed in the mediocre writing, the often atrocious dialog, the superfluous callbacks to earlier Trek, the weird and anti-climactic plot developments and the often very head-scratching logic of it. I'm not a hater – I do enjoy most of the characters and the actors performing them as well as the creative direction of the show, it looks awesome – but the quality of season one is all over the place. Having watched it all I was left wondering what this was all about and how any of it makes a lick of sense.

I can only hope season two improves from here on out.

 

[KennyB]

Here's the thing....it's your opinion. Like it or hate it, you get to make up your own mind and DO NOT let self appointed guardians of The Great Bird tell YOU what to like.

 

[Rahul]

This sums it up for me as well. Discovery is a deeply flawed show, packed with many shockingly shoddy writing failures. Which I know because I have excitedly watched the entire first season three times. I don't feel as much conflict as many others seem to between "it's a mess!" and "I love it!" Those feelings can go together.

I don't know. Every Star Trek sow was mess-y at some point (probably at most points), but I like them anyway, simply for the stuff that is good.

I think if DIS would have been "just" a mess, I would have liked it. What disgusts me about the show is the indlugence in gore and extreme violence. Not realistic violence mind you - I loved it when on DS9 violence had actually consequences, like Nog loosing his leg, or Jake basically his innocence when working as a reporter in a war zone.

No, what I hate most about DIS is the violence porn. And I can't describe as at anything else than that: Gore pornography. Especially in the mirror universe, but also most encounters with the klingons feel less like, for example, a war movie, and more like "Saw" or "Hostel", where the creators got the most perverse excitement about the most show-offy, gruesome gore deaths possible.

I don't want to seee shit like that. I don't watch torture porn. And I fucking hate it that they now have swamped Star Trek with it.

So yeah - my overall dislike of Season 1 comes from a more personal place. I can tolerate some messy logic, writing and everything. But this stuff is just simply disgusting, and reduced my overall enjoyment of the show.

This is also my most crucial factor. Discovery got the cast & characters right. That buys you an enormous amount of leeway in regards to other problems. This is why TNG came together, and VOY never did -- the TNG cast was right, whereas much of the VOY cast flatlined from the first moment of the pilot and went 7 years without exhibiting a blip of life.

Here I have to disagree: I think for example Burnham is not much more interesting than, say, Tom Paris. In fact, it's (IMO) almost the same character, just cranked up to eleven - but with Tom Paris it was new. I like Stamets, but not more than, say, The Doctor. Saru is definitely better than Neelix, but Tilly vs. Kim? I don't know yet. Pre-reveal Lorca was more interesting than Janeway. Post? Not so much. And DIS doesn't have a break-out character like Seven of Nine yet.

VOY had same blanks like Chakotay of course. But Jesus Christ, the entire DIS bridge crew (Detmer, the robot, the black woman) didn't even got NAMES on screen! They were SO underdeveloped, in any other show they would simply be reffered to as "redshirts". And for just focusing on three or four characters, DIS managed to get astonishingly little characterisation of an entire season.

As much as I say to myself "all Trek shows have messy first seasons", I also heartily second this. "First seasons are always uneven" is a passable defense in a world of 50 shows, not so much in a world of 500.

The competition is not "500 shows". The competition is "half a dozen SUPER high quality shows" every year. And in the quality prestige-show category, DIS is playing catch-up in every aspect, wheras for example even the messy TNG season 1 was still the one and best SF-show on screen at it's time.