Finally Watching Discovery - Was I Supoosed to Hate This?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Mysterion, Nov 17, 2018.

  1. Rahul

    Rahul Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Nobody should hate it.

    Now, to give you a warning: Four or five episodes in is probably the best part of the show. There are still a few good scenes left, but there are some big jump-the-shark moments coming, and the overall conclusion to the season arc is....disappointing to be mild.

    That being said: Nothing stops you from enjoying it. Nor should it. I unequivocally like VOY. Not as much as, say, TOS or TNG (or even season 3&4 ENT). And I know there are some real flaws with it, but most of the "hatred" against it is either overblown, or motivated by, let's say, more fundamental grudges. It's not a perfect show - not by any means. But it's one I earnestly enjoyed when it was fresh.

    The same is probably the best attitude for DIS.
    I harp on the show a lot around here (and for the record, I think it's vastly inferiour to most Trek so far - though S2 and short Treks already look like a BIG improvement) - but that's because it's just so early in, and I genuinely want it to improve. And hell - I wouldn't put so much energy in over-analyzing it so much if there wasn't something deeply interesting me.
     
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  2. Vger23

    Vger23 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Of course you're not supposed to hate it. You're supposed to be entertained by it, or not. That's basically it.

    Despite some obvious growing pains with writing and concluding the S1 arc, I found DSC to be the most engaging Trek in first-run since TNG. TNG was the only other first season I made it through as it aired without losing interest so some degree. DSC, flaws and all, kept me coming back and interested every episode.
     
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  3. Smellmet

    Smellmet Commodore Commodore

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    I enjoyed it overall. There were elements I didn't care for, FX, klingons, but it's mainly cosmetic issues I have with it, and it sounds like they're changing it up a little for S2. I thought the spore drive was a bit much too and didn't really feel all that necessary to the story. I loved the sets throughout though and I thought the show got better as the season progressed and enjoyed the twists. I'm looking forward the next series.
     
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  4. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Admiral Admiral

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    It is a good show with some significant flaws.
     
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  5. Mirror Mirror

    Mirror Mirror Commodore Commodore

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    Like every other star trek
     
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  6. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It's a good show with plenty of room to grow. Right now its biggest hurdle is overcoming preconceived notions about Star Trek.
     
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  7. feek61

    feek61 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I have no preconceived notions; I simply want good writing and decent stories. IMO, Discovery is more about the look and feel of the show and of course the effects but the stories are not well written at all which is the most disappointing part of the show for me.
     
  8. ralph

    ralph Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    All series are full of ups and downs.
    In my Opinion, the balance is positive.
     
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  9. ralph

    ralph Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I completely agree.:techman:
     
  10. Cyrus

    Cyrus Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I like Discovery. Can't wait for the new season, the trailers are great.
     
  11. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Admiral Admiral

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    True, but the flaws are a little bigger than with the first three Treks. :)
     
  12. Mirror Mirror

    Mirror Mirror Commodore Commodore

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    We will disagree, heavily.
     
  13. Hela

    Hela Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I’d take the first season of DIS over TNG’s and DS9’s any day.

    TNG has 25 damn episodes in its first season, and I like exactly 3 1/2 of them. And that’s just ‘enjoy.’ Not ‘consider to be good.’
     
  14. Refuge

    Refuge Vice Admiral Admiral

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    You know the biggest flaw? The other three were still enjoyable, 'Discovery' was an exercise.
     
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  15. Groppler Zorn

    Groppler Zorn Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Totally agree with this.

    DSC is a very well made show production-wise, but the story didn’t engage me sadly. It felt like a slog getting through it. This isn’t a feeling I had with any previous iteration (save possibly Enterprise, and I like Enterprise).

    I still think that comparing DSC to earlier Trek first seasons is a double edged sword, though. Those shows were made in a very different era of television, so saying “well earlier treks were uneven” doesn’t really apply in the same way here in my opinion.

    We should compare it to other Netflix sci-fi shows made in this decade, I think.

    I really enjoyed “Ascension” (gutted they cancelled it) because the story sucked me in. Yet that show got cancelled so what do I know :lol:

    I also know that comparing DSC to other Netflix shows is a rabbit hole that’s been delved into elsewhere so it might be worth leaving my incoherent comment at that...!
     
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  16. SPCTRE

    SPCTRE Badass Admiral

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    that depends, are you a True Fan of Star Trek?

    [​IMG]
     
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  17. Sakonna

    Sakonna Commodore Commodore

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    This sums it up for me as well. Discovery is a deeply flawed show, packed with many shockingly shoddy writing failures. Which I know because I have excitedly watched the entire first season three times. I don't feel as much conflict as many others seem to between "it's a mess!" and "I love it!" Those feelings can go together.

    This is also my most crucial factor. Discovery got the cast & characters right. That buys you an enormous amount of leeway in regards to other problems. This is why TNG came together, and VOY never did -- the TNG cast was right, whereas much of the VOY cast flatlined from the first moment of the pilot and went 7 years without exhibiting a blip of life.

    As much as I say to myself "all Trek shows have messy first seasons", I also heartily second this. "First seasons are always uneven" is a passable defense in a world of 50 shows, not so much in a world of 500.
     
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  18. Michael

    Michael *:・゚✧ . ゜・ Moderator

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    Having digested season one and my initial reaction to it over the last couple of months, I can now say that I completely agree with your assessment. The first couple of episodes were strong (I especially liked episode 3, aka the “second pilot”), but after that – and as a complete whole – I was very disappointed in the mediocre writing, the often atrocious dialog, the superfluous callbacks to earlier Trek, the weird and anti-climactic plot developments and the often very head-scratching logic of it. I'm not a hater – I do enjoy most of the characters and the actors performing them as well as the creative direction of the show, it looks awesome – but the quality of season one is all over the place. Having watched it all I was left wondering what this was all about and how any of it makes a lick of sense.

    I can only hope season two improves from here on out.
     
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  19. KennyB

    KennyB I have spoken............ Moderator

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    Here's the thing....it's your opinion. Like it or hate it, you get to make up your own mind and DO NOT let self appointed guardians of The Great Bird tell YOU what to like.
     
  20. Rahul

    Rahul Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I don't know. Every Star Trek sow was mess-y at some point (probably at most points), but I like them anyway, simply for the stuff that is good.

    I think if DIS would have been "just" a mess, I would have liked it. What disgusts me about the show is the indlugence in gore and extreme violence. Not realistic violence mind you - I loved it when on DS9 violence had actually consequences, like Nog loosing his leg, or Jake basically his innocence when working as a reporter in a war zone.

    No, what I hate most about DIS is the violence porn. And I can't describe as at anything else than that: Gore pornography. Especially in the mirror universe, but also most encounters with the klingons feel less like, for example, a war movie, and more like "Saw" or "Hostel", where the creators got the most perverse excitement about the most show-offy, gruesome gore deaths possible.

    I don't want to seee shit like that. I don't watch torture porn. And I fucking hate it that they now have swamped Star Trek with it.

    So yeah - my overall dislike of Season 1 comes from a more personal place. I can tolerate some messy logic, writing and everything. But this stuff is just simply disgusting, and reduced my overall enjoyment of the show.

    Here I have to disagree: I think for example Burnham is not much more interesting than, say, Tom Paris. In fact, it's (IMO) almost the same character, just cranked up to eleven - but with Tom Paris it was new. I like Stamets, but not more than, say, The Doctor. Saru is definitely better than Neelix, but Tilly vs. Kim? I don't know yet. Pre-reveal Lorca was more interesting than Janeway. Post? Not so much. And DIS doesn't have a break-out character like Seven of Nine yet.

    VOY had same blanks like Chakotay of course. But Jesus Christ, the entire DIS bridge crew (Detmer, the robot, the black woman) didn't even got NAMES on screen! They were SO underdeveloped, in any other show they would simply be reffered to as "redshirts". And for just focusing on three or four characters, DIS managed to get astonishingly little characterisation of an entire season.

    The competition is not "500 shows". The competition is "half a dozen SUPER high quality shows" every year. And in the quality prestige-show category, DIS is playing catch-up in every aspect, wheras for example even the messy TNG season 1 was still the one and best SF-show on screen at it's time.