Finally saw Endgame Again

[Hartzilla2007]

Sisko took an assend job in th emiddle of no where. Barjor was career suiside even if he didn't get killed in some looming civil war as the planet ran out of food and resources after the cardassians spent half a century sacking it. If not for the wormhole they would never had the commenrce to get up in running by the fall of the next millennium, so the posting was just about as good as retirement.

Um Sisko DIDN'T want to be at DS9 at first he wanted to stay on Mars and was considering resigning to work on orbital habit was itats back on Earth it was After the chat with the Prophets that he wanted to stick around.

I think the evidence argues that the 'Endgame' future was actually an alternate future along the lines of 'Yesterday's Enterprise.' Compare Janeway going back in time to the alternate Tasha Yar going back aboard the Enterprise-C. That Tasha clearly did go back in the 'real' timeline as we encountered her daughter without any explanation that the timeline had 'changed' and I'd argue similarly that Voyager returning home 'early' after being aided by Admiral Janeway is the way history 'really' records what happened. That's why the Temporal Integrity Commission didn't 'fix' it.

WHY! WHY! WHY! Do fans make up these weird theories to explain how the timeline wasn't changed when it was? Look I don't want to be rude but facts are facts the timeline got screwed with.

I think Weyoun described the Vorta as small and primatelike when the Founders found them.

A-ha. So they were Ewoks.

Darth Vader: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Luke Skywalker: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Though it would explain why the Vorta are in charge of the Jem Hadar since their ancestors were good at kicking Clone soldier ass.

 

[USS Renegade]

If the Time Cops from "Relitivity" exist and their job is to correct any issues in the time line that shouldn't be allowed, how is pollution of the time line still possable? The Moblie Emitter, Starling and Kronoworks all pollute the time line but like "Year of Hell" are allowed to exist because the events are meant to happen. Who's to say "Endgame" is any different?

You assume that the Time Cops in Relativity are perfect, all knowing, and infallable. Seeing as one of their own officers ended up polluting the timeline, I'm just gonna have to assume they are NOT perfect.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Their job is not to stop ALL timetravel but to preserve the constant shape of their own history, no matter how wibblywobbly timeywimey it may be.

 

[The Grim Ghost]

I think the Cardassians and Romulans might actually bond over their mutual contempt for Klingons to weaponize tribbles.

I've heard rumors that if Vorta eat too much, they pop out a clone too.

NEVER feed Weyoun after midnight!

 

[exodus]

If the Time Cops from "Relitivity" exist and their job is to correct any issues in the time line that shouldn't be allowed, how is pollution of the time line still possable? The Moblie Emitter, Starling and Kronoworks all pollute the time line but like "Year of Hell" are allowed to exist because the events are meant to happen. Who's to say "Endgame" is any different?

You assume that the Time Cops in Relativity are perfect, all knowing, and infallable. Seeing as one of their own officers ended up polluting the timeline, I'm just gonna have to assume they are NOT perfect.

Neither are regular cops but we still put enough faith in them to do their jobs correctly.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Consider Annorax's vantage point. The timecops would have been in a similar position. Watching the universe from outside of time unaffected by any changes to the timeline as they see morons experimenting with timetravel and accidents constantly rewriting their present, where their families live inside time, into something utterly unrecognizable.

It would have been impossibly negligent of the 29th century timecops not to be on top of people playing with time, either to stop it, or make sure it all happens as it is supposed to, especially if they can see themselves already stopping and fixing time issues that they too again become fates bitch acting out what has always been once they reenter time.

Hell, they're carrying transponders, the same as communicator beacons right? So when time changes, and they look for themselves inside time a few hours older than they are right then outside of time, fixing whatever fucked up inside time, then they know exactly where they have to be inside time to save the day because they're already there inside time when they are outside time watching what they have already been going to done. It's like remembering backwards isn't it?

The same with any war. Capture the high ground.

 

[Praetor]

I think the evidence argues that the 'Endgame' future was actually an alternate future along the lines of 'Yesterday's Enterprise.' Compare Janeway going back in time to the alternate Tasha Yar going back aboard the Enterprise-C. That Tasha clearly did go back in the 'real' timeline as we encountered her daughter without any explanation that the timeline had 'changed' and I'd argue similarly that Voyager returning home 'early' after being aided by Admiral Janeway is the way history 'really' records what happened. That's why the Temporal Integrity Commission didn't 'fix' it.

WHY! WHY! WHY! Do fans make up these weird theories to explain how the timeline wasn't changed when it was? Look I don't want to be rude but facts are facts the timeline got screwed with.

What I'm trying to point out is that in both 'Endgame' and 'Yesterday's Enterprise' it appears that 1) the timeline did get screwed with, yes, but 2) it became a part of history and therefore 'okay.' One might even extend that metaphor to TVH. Either the time folks are more or less omniscient and history was 'supposed' to be this way, or they aren't as omniscient as we are led to believe.

I think Weyoun described the Vorta as small and primatelike when the Founders found them.

A-ha. So they were Ewoks.

Darth Vader: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Luke Skywalker: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Though it would explain why the Vorta are in charge of the Jem Hadar since their ancestors were good at kicking Clone soldier ass.

 

[Anticitizen]

I was never too bothered by Endgame, except that I really felt cheated in that I didn't see them interacting with the Alpha quadrant. I would have liked to have seen something of a victory/welcome home celebration from the Federation, or something like that.
What can I say? I'm a sucker for the happy ending.

You know what would have been a nice touch? Ending the episode the same way it began - with the Voyager flying over Golden Gate with fireworks bursting in the background, then roll credits.

 

[Anticitizen]

Do you really think the writers would give us an ending if they wanted Janeway to be seen as a mass murder to save one person? What Trek would want to to see the main character & capt. as a villian?

Barclay, The Doc & Harry all knew what she was up to. If any of them thought what she was doing would cause mass genocide, would you really think all of them would risk their freedom & careers and still allow her to go?

Genocide? Okay, you could attribute that to Admiral Janeway, I suppose, because she's 'undoing' the birth of many people by changing the past, but why would Captain Janeway care? It's still the present to her. By deciding to take a right turn at a red light instead of a left, I'm making a choice that alters the future. My turning right will lead to a chain of events that shapes the future. Should I feel guilty because I didn't turn left, and therefore deprived the future of all the stuff that would've happened?

And even from Admiral Janeway's point of view... yeah, she'll be undoing years of history and probably quite a few births, etc. but what about the new future? All the new births and lives that will come with the new timeline? Why is one better than the other?

It seems to me that there's no right answer, and no real reason to 'protect' a timeline from an objective point of view - all you can do is hope the eventual outcome is the best one you can manage to bring about - but it's a completely subjective appraisal.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The Borg haven't assimilated us, in fact they're sorted, meanwhile not even the Romulans are walking naked humans on leashes as pets picking up their poopies in little glove baggies.

Considering everything that can go wrong, to the next 26 years from her meddling point on, Admiral Janeway is a bit of a bastard.

Did she just create an alternative timeline rather than rewriting over a pre-existing timeline? Too many conflicting rules to tell, but all the other people helping her could have had their own laundry list of changes they wanted Janeway to make as their proxy.

Starfleet deployed an entire Starship to resolve the matter before it all went HORRIBLY wrong. Hardly a proportinate response if everything was so benign. I suppose they should be concerned about mirror universe crossover that if there's another all Borg Universe created who is counteracting their antiborg tech who could try to emmigrate? Whichis a concern to be pissing yourself over.