Federation encounters Oceania.

[Orphalesion]

Since this is the "General Trek Section", not the TOS section, I'm not going to imagine the Kirk era Enterprise in particular.

Also...so what happened here? The Party somehow took hold of an *entire starship crew* (?!) and brainwashed them all into being good citizens and then they put them on their ship to take over the Federation?
I don't think hat would be their course of action. Once they hear of this giant, vastly powerful space empire (the Federation) where many of the tools the Party uses to control the population have been eradicated I think the biggest interest of the Party would be to deny its existence and prevent any information or rumor about it from reaching the public. And to get the Federation to leave them alone. If anything they might spread word that the Ministry of Truth has unmistakably concluded that life on other planets is an impossibility.

But assuming this, somehow, happens. They somehow have taken over a Federation vessel and, somehow, brainwashed it's entire crew into loving Big Brother and send them out on a completely futile quest to convert other planets to their way of thinking.
Well, once they have a warp vessel, they aren't a pre-warp civilization anymore, are they? Plus the ship would be stolen Federation property and filled with kidnapped/brainwashed federation citizens, so it would very much be the Federations business, Prime Directive doesn't protect here anymore.
Regardless of which Enterprise they encounter it would probably be pretty similar to the Enterprise interacting with a Romulan, or TOS era Klingon vessel, with the only added complication being that they'd try to save as many of the brainwashed crew as possible.
They might do a covert operation afterwards to make sure Oceania has not the needed information to create more warp ships (not likely anyway, considering how terribly Oceania is run, let alone their probable inability to find/educate people to re-enigneer and fly it) and then leave them alone, probably (especially Picard's Enterprise) since they'd feel it's not their call to decide how the Oceania planet should develop.

Possibly Archer's Enterprise would be in the biggest trouble, since there weren't many other Earth vessels around during that time and the Federation didn't exist yet, so the Party would be at its boldest here, and might actually try to expand into space (again, assuming they manage, which, again, I find unlikely)

 

[at Quark's]

Remember the ministry of love and what they did to julia and winston. Can the federation really undo that leavel of brainwashing?

Why not? I would think that even today, all brainwashing can be undone to a certain extent, even if not all damage (e.g. trauma) can be undone. (In terms of learning to cope with it) - but I'm not an expert by any means. So I would think that a civilization that is three hundred years more advanced, and has access to psychology resources from all species comprising the Federation, with different psychology profiles and such, would have a more general theory of psychology and an easier time of reversing brainwashing than we do.

In fact, we see the Federation do exactly this in several episodes, e.g. in Voyager's Nemesis. Chakotay seems thoroughly brainwashed there, next episode he is fine. (admittedly, this is about a century after Kirk's time, but still).

 

[Tim Thomason]

Since this is the "General Trek Section", not the TOS section, I'm not going to imagine the Kirk era Enterprise in particular.

Also...so what happened here? The Party somehow took hold of an *entire starship crew* (?!) and brainwashed them all into being good citizens and then they put them on their ship to take over the Federation?
I don't think hat would be their course of action. Once they hear of this giant, vastly powerful space empire (the Federation) where many of the tools the Party uses to control the population have been eradicated I think the biggest interest of the Party would be to deny its existence and prevent any information or rumor about it from reaching the public. And to get the Federation to leave them alone. If anything they might spread word that the Ministry of Truth has unmistakably concluded that life on other planets is an impossibility.

Reminds me of the Ba'ul on Star Trek: Discovery, a highly aggressive, oppressive, xenophobic society that pretty much herded most of their planet and was given a wide berth by the Federation.

 

[at Quark's]

They should write a scenario where Oceania and the Borg Collective have to settle a dispute using diplomatic channels exclusively, or where they have to work together to oppose a common threat (not that I can see how because of their massive power difference, but that's a problem for the writer to solve). They're both such thoughtful, considerate cultures, and I'm sure they'd get along famously...

 

[publiusr]

The drones at least have their dream life in the unimatrix.

 

[Orphalesion]

They should write a scenario where Oceania and the Borg Collective have to settle a dispute using diplomatic channels exclusively, or where they have to work together to oppose a common threat (not that I can see how because of their massive power difference, but that's a problem for the writer to solve). They're both such thoughtful, considerate cultures, and I'm sure they'd get along famously...

The Borg would either just assimilate Oceania, or not bother with it because they're too primitive/don't have anything they want.

 

[BillJ]

The drones at least have their dream life in the unimatrix.

I thought that was just a select few that had some kind of mutation?

 

[Orphalesion]

I thought that was just a select few that had some kind of mutation?

One in a million, if I remember correctly.

 

[at Quark's]

The Borg would either just assimilate Oceania, or not bother with it because they're too primitive/don't have anything they want.

Evidently, which is why I said the writer would have to set up a situation in which neither of both is an attractive or even feasible option to the Borg, just to allow us the joy of seeing these civilizations having to put up with one another, which probably is going to be hard to do in a somewhat credible way

 

[Orphalesion]

Evidently, which is why I said the writer would have to set up a situation in which neither of both is an attractive or even feasible option to the Borg, just to allow us the joy of seeing these civilizations having to put up with one another, which probably is going to be hard to do in a somewhat credible way

It's pretty much impossible given what we know of both civilizations, esopecially considering how low tech Oceania is.

 

[Shawnster]

How would the federation handle this civilization? And would the Prime directive still matter towards a pre-warp civilization that has stalled and hit a dead end in it's development? And if said civilization was hellbent on aggressive expansion or spreading their ideology across the galaxy?

If it were the kirk era enterprise assigned to this expedition, I

Is it 100% human culture? If so, then Kirk would definitely state the Prime Directive does not apply. Are they only similar to humans or humanoid cultures? Kirk would still more than likely state the Prime Directive does not apply. Since they already had been contaminated by the events of the first encounter, the Prime Directive would have been deemed non-applicable. The genie was out of the bottle.

Plus, 23rd century Prime Directive was not a blanket "non-interference" directive like it evolved into by the 24th century. In Kirk's day the PD was only "No identification of self or mission. No interference with the social development of said planet. No references to space, or the fact that there are other worlds, or more advanced civilizations." The Oceania scenario already makes the PD null and void because the Inner Party at least know about other worlds with advanced civilizations, as well as the identity of the first ship's crew and mission. Further, if the culture had clearly stagnated, then Kirk would reason the PD did not apply because the social development of said planet was no longer developing. It had become stagnant.

Picard's era they might have tried to covertly extract the brainwashed crew of the first starship as we saw in "Thine Own Self" or "First Contact."

Remember the ministry of love and what they did to julia and winston. Can the federation really undo that leavel of brainwashing?

As others have already pointed out, we've seen several instances already where brainwashing has been reversed; at least by the 24th century. Picard was successfully restored from being assimilated, and so was Seven. LaForge recovered from the Romulan brainwashing. I should think any good Vulcan or full Betazoid therapist could undo brainwashing even in the 23rd century. The holodeck could even be used as a therapeutic tool.

3) It is not the Federation's place to determine whether or not a "stall" has occurred or whether or not a "stall" is something that "shouldn't" happen.

That never stopped Kirk as already mentioned in "The Apple," and "Return of the Archons." "A Piece of the Action" sorta falls under this category as well. "Patterns of Force" might fit in a stretch, although someone might argue these last two references do not apply since they were already contaminated societies. It's only "Bread and Circuses" where the Prime Directive is given consideration.

Kirk definitely felt it was his place to judge whether a culture had stalled or stagnated.

 

[publiusr]

But in real life, there is no such thing as an absence of opposition and never will be.

Agreed.
Now time travel would allow earlier people’s to be controlled more easily because they wouldn’t know what a hidden camera was.

 

[Sci]

That never stopped Kirk as already mentioned in "The Apple," and "Return of the Archons." "A Piece of the Action" sorta falls under this category as well. "Patterns of Force" might fit in a stretch, although someone might argue these last two references do not apply since they were already contaminated societies. It's only "Bread and Circuses" where the Prime Directive is given consideration.

Kirk definitely felt it was his place to judge whether a culture had stalled or stagnated.

And that's part of why 24th Century Starfleet regarded his commend decisions as being "cowboy diplomacy" and unacceptable by their standards.

 

[XCV330]

so what


What if the survivors were converted into sleeper agents as stated in this scenario?

like they trigger the moment they are taken aboard the enterprise and they start speaking in "doublespeak" rather than english.

Directive 010: "Before engaging alien species in battle, any and all attempts to make first contact and achieve nonmilitary resolution must be made..

 

[BillJ]

And that's part of why 24th Century Starfleet regarded his commend decisions as being "cowboy diplomacy" and unacceptable by their standards.

That is just how the future works. The mid-25th century will look back on Picard’s violations and be just as condescending.

 

[StarCruiser]

^ Hind sight is 20/20 (or is it 20/15?).

 

[Tim Thomason]

^ Hind sight is 20/20 (or is it 20/15?).

20/20 is now a bad word. Hindsight doesn't want to be anywhere near that trash pile.