Fanmade AI upscaling of a scene from DS9.....

[fireproof78]

It's not a question of can. It's a question of is it worth the money at this point in time.

Fans will say "YES! 1000x yes! Fireproof, you don't know what you're talking about. Of course it has to be done and we would pay for it!" Ok, sure, maybe. But, until people stop watching DS9 currently streaming and demonstrate that Paramount will loose money unless it gets an upgrade then they will not see the value in doing so because it is not impacting their revenue stream.

 

[trekfan_1]

It's not a question of can. It's a question of is it worth the money at this point in time.

Fans will say "YES! 1000x yes! Fireproof, you don't know what you're talking about. Of course it has to be done and we would pay for it!" Ok, sure, maybe. But, until people stop watching DS9 currently streaming and demonstrate that Paramount will loose money unless it gets an upgrade then they will not see the value in doing so because it is not impacting their revenue stream.

If your talking about a TNG style full remaster, then I agree with you . But the cost of AI upscales would be a drop in the bucket for Paramount .. Private individuals have done it. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if some of those people would volunteer to do it for them for free or for a small fee.

It's like the difference between polishing your car and a new paint job. Cost shouldn't be an issue to atleaast make the streamed versions as good or a bit better than DVD quality

 

[fireproof78]

If your talking about a TNG style full remaster, then I agree with you . But the cost of AI upscales would be a drop in the bucket for Paramount .. Private individuals have done it. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised some of those people would volunteer to do it for them for free or a small fee.

That's not how Hollywood works though. The AI upscaling is a marginal benefit, at best, and would still involve a cost of both labor and time to reupload for what is not necessarily a demonstrable benefit.

Right now, the sense I get, is they would rather invest monies in to new content when people are happy to consume current and old content unmodified.

 

[trekfan_1]

That's not how Hollywood works though. The AI upscaling is a marginal benefit, at best, and would still involve a cost of both labor and time to reupload for what is not necessarily a demonstrable benefit.

Right now, the sense I get, is they would rather invest monies in to new content when people are happy to consume current and old content unmodified.

So your telling me it would cost them money even if they were hypothetical gifted a full set of AI remastered episodes? 30th anniversary is coming . If they aquire a few extra subscribers just for that reason, it would probably pay for the cost of the labor involved in uploading, Or I'm I underestimating the work or cost involved in the simple action of uploading content onto a streamer?

 

[fireproof78]

So your telling them it would cost them money even if they were hypothetical gifted a full set of AI remastered episodes? 30th anniversary is coming . If they aquire a few extra subscribers just for that reason, it would probably pay for the cost of the labor involved in uploading, Or I'm I underestimating the work or cost involved in the simple action of uploading content onta streamer.

Yes, it would cost them money to upload, to test it out, and to make sure it functions. Functionality is taken for granted but takes time to test and make sure it works.

And, even if they were "gifted it" (I find that hard to believe) could they accept it even? Hollywood is weird about such things.

But, that's all hypothetical. The only thing I see right now is that they are not willing to do it. Probably because the math doesn't add up. When subscribers stop watching DS9 then they will consider it. Probably not before.

 

[kkt]

Hollywood is a unionized industry. They probably couldn't accept a free gift from a fan, even if the fan wanted to and did a great job.

 

[NCC-73515]

The later seasons look good on P+

 

[Muji]

If your talking about a TNG style full remaster, then I agree with you

I actually don't. I absolutely think there should be TNG style remasters for DS9 and VOY. It's their flagship franchise and I think they should be looking at the potential new viewers it can attract. It's all very well die hard fans of the show saying how it doesn't make a difference to them how it looks, or that 480p is just fine, etc., it's all well and good if you're watching it on your phone, tablet, or laptop, but it's woefully inadequate when you try to watch it on a 65'' screen, and when you compare it to other shows that have been remastered or newer shows with DoVi or HDR on top notch OLED it really falls behind. Again, there are some on here who'd watch it in 144p and not be fussed but there are a great many who have never seen it but might well want to if it got a remaster. Plus, from my own personal perspective, I think these things should be treated with love and brought up to a more modern standard. A large chunk of the cost could be covered by subscriptions, special edition BR disks, etc. It baffles me why they don't invest in their flagship.

 

[fireproof78]

Again, there are some on here who'd watch it in 144p and not be fussed but there are a great many who have never seen it but might well want to if it got a remaster.

People say this but rarely do I see the money put up.

 

[Muji]

People say this but rarely do I see the money put up.

How would you see the money put up? There'd have to be a remaster first, so I guess we won't know. We do know that current fans buy remasters, and I from my own experience - anecdotal evidence, I know - with tech forums and reddit, there's a lot of people interested in tech, especially TVs and UHD BRs, who just wouldn't embark on something that long without it being remastered because it wouldn't look pretty bad on their TVs. I wouldn't watch it again on my current TV if I didn't already have a FHD AI upscale. It just looks too bad. I'd wager I'm not alone. Verifying that, as with disproving it, would be quite a task; it's just a judgement call at this point.

 

[fireproof78]

How would you see the money put up? There'd have to be a remaster first, so I guess we won't know. We do know that current fans buy remasters, and I from my own experience - anecdotal evidence, I know - with tech forums and reddit, there's a lot of people interested in tech, especially TVs and UHD BRs, who just wouldn't embark on something that long without it being remastered because it wouldn't look pretty bad on their TVs. I wouldn't watch it again on my current TV if I didn't already have a FHD AI upscale. It just looks too bad. I'd wager I'm not alone. Verifying that, as with disproving it, would be quite a task; it's just a judgement call at this point.

I don't think you're alone in it but I think people willing to spend money on it are not the same as people talking about it.

 

[trekfan_1]

I actually don't. I absolutely think there should be TNG style remasters for DS9 and VOY. It's their flagship franchise and I think they should be looking at the potential new viewers it can attract. It's all very well die hard fans of the show saying how it doesn't make a difference to them how it looks, or that 480p is just fine, etc., it's all well and good if you're watching it on your phone, tablet, or laptop, but it's woefully inadequate when you try to watch it on a 65'' screen, and when you compare it to other shows that have been remastered or newer shows with DoVi or HDR on top notch OLED it really falls behind. Again, there are some on here who'd watch it in 144p and not be fussed but there are a great many who have never seen it but might well want to if it got a remaster. Plus, from my own personal perspective, I think these things should be treated with love and brought up to a more modern standard. A large chunk of the cost could be covered by subscriptions, special edition BR disks, etc. It baffles me why they don't invest in their flagship.

Nothing would please me more than to be wrong about this . Would be ecstatic if Paramount invests in upgrading DS9 to full HD glory . Was holding out faint hope something would be planned for the 30th anniversary. But since that is 5 months away, it's pretty unlikely at this point

 

[Tomalak]

I was very pleasantly surprised when it was announced Paramount were putting their hands in their pockets for 4K remasters of the films, and even more so when they finally finished the TMP Director's Edition in 4K.

I think we're slowly getting there with DS9 and VGR remasters. But it's going to take time and money to do it right. What I don't want is some cheapo AI upscale that looks barely better than my Blu-ray player can do to the twenty year old DVDs, because if they do that, they won't ever do it properly.

P+ is still rolling out internationally. The legacy Trek streaming rights are still with Netflix for much of the world. I can't see them doing anything until Star Trek is all back in-house.

But I am a little more cautiously optimistic that it will eventually happen than I was a couple of years ago.

 

[fireproof78]

All that has to be demonstrated is that it is worth the money. TMP was an unexpected foray but seems to be netting Paramount some money. If it's making money it will be considered.

 

[cooleddie74]

This was posted a few days ago. Looks great!

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[Tosk]

Not bad, but the detail fluctuates visibly. Some fine detail is there one moment and then disappears into a waxy haze the next. Especially things like skin texture on the face.

 

[bdub76]

Since this show aired when I was going to university, I only caught the first season on TV. During the pandemic lockdown, I binged the entire show on Netflix. And I really liked it even though the last season dragged at the very end. I am surprised a Blu-ray release never came out.

Now, I really like the work done on STO and ST:NG for Blu-ray, but this doesn't seem likely to ever occur for DS9 other than the documentary that I supported. It's too expensive, I guess.

However, it looks like NVIDIA the video card manufacturer is having some financial difficulty lately, so I'm starting to see their latest RTX cards show up in laptops and desktops at affordable prices. Maybe BTC falling below $20k is helping too along with higher energy prices. And the technology to upscale in a reasonable amount of time for reasonable amount of money appears to be here.

Check out these results using $200 software along with free software.

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/338403-what-video-ai-upscalers-can-and-cant-do

This is pretty exciting. And it makes me want to setup a home studio to do this for fun now that the timeframe to process is less long than it has been in the past, and it's far more affordable. I'm good going to either 720 or 1080.

I guess, my question is the same as the author of these articles. Why hasn't Paramount at least done this to their DS9 release?

It's not as expensive as remastering like they did for ST:NG, but it would provide a much better product. I'd be on board even if it was digital only like Babylon 5, which has awful DVDs, but looks stunning on HBO Max.

 

[bdub76]

The technology for this keeps improving. Someone did upscaled Highlander from the DVDs to 1080p, and it looks far better than my actual DVDs. When someone at home can do this with their computer in a timely fashion, it's worth the upgrade. I'm thinking of setting up my own "lab" to upscale some of my DVDs for shows, where I don't expect to get a Blu-ray release.

Now, the documentary suggests that the show was shot 16x9. I'd love to see the full frames actually done by Paramount, but I'm not holding my breath. I can say that seeing the full frame for X-Files is totally worth it. But since this is likely not happening, I have two choices. I can upscale my DVDs or wait for the next iteration of NVIDIA Shield and hope for much better AI upscaling in real time.

 

[TheSeeker]

@bdub76

We already have a thread on AI Upscaling so I'm just going to go ahead and merge your thread with this one.