• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Fanmade AI upscaling of a scene from DS9.....

That doesn't mean most people don't care, it just means you need more discriminating friends. ;)

Jokes aside, I've witnessed much the same. I can't comprehend people who watch 4x3 stuff stretched out to fill a 16x9 screen. Do they not see, or not care? Either one is baffling.
More not a priority. I can't afford an upgrade so I'll keep watching what I have. Contentment.
 
  • Like
Reactions: kkt
So first, very important..... THIS IS NOT MADE BY ME!!!

I just stumbled over it on YouTube.

Second, even though not as good as the TNG bluray stuff, if a version of this was available for streaming I'd be very happy.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

I've been watching these. He's (She?) doing a great job, even though I didn't notice his mistake in the Maquis clip. I think it had to do with the focus of the Stars.
 
Instead of posting the usual technobabble, here are visual demonstrations, from another TV show from source material where the original VT edit existed, a 35mm restoration, followed with one one but two examples of AI enhancing utilities:

theicarusfactor211.jpg

VT original (source: TrekCore, presumably deinterlaced from the DVD to create ersatz 480P from two 480i fields composited to make one P frame.)

theicarusfactor211-scale-2-00x-gigapixel.jpg

A $100 utility, GigaPixel AI, can interpolate, remap, and upscale and find some possible details by carefully using edge enhancement techniques.

theicarusfactor211-TPAI.jpg

Upscaled with Topaz AI. Topaz has a suite of filters, which are generally quite good. But it, like every other AI tool, can't add detail - as the following image will concretely prove:




theicarusfactor-hd-211.jpg

Yon blu-ray. Now I could have played games and color correct to make their histograms identical, since the 35mm remasters are cooler and lacking that warm glowing warming glow, but look at the actual details around Worf's head, the door frame in the corner, or the door placard.

I could shrink the 35mm image down to 480p as well as the upscaled versions and it would still have the most innate details. Even with the post's default image size settings where all images are shrunken slightly, the difference is fairly straightforward. Look at "11" on the door label alone - not even the AfterImage equivalent filters to clean motion video (some use very similar algorithms) are going to bring out that black stripe between the red ones, or more nuanced detail within the wall and other textures. Colors too, especially the denser detailing around Worf's face.

Given enough time, finding something with quilted tunics to point out how the modern AI methods make everything look like fuzzy wax despite the enhanced edge sharpening elsewhere... I could have found a more dense image to really show how AI can't hold a candle. It still depends on source material...

In short, looking at the details, only one of these images comes even remotely close to genuine "HD". The technology has come along way, but it's still clearly no contest (no pun intended), and the AI better suited for material where no higher quality/film master exists. Or if the source is high enough in pixel density, 480P as a source is still impracticable next to a 1080P source - which most modern films are rendered in. The greater the source material density, the higher you can upscale - back in the print media days, some printers would risk stretching from 300PPI to 150PPI as, after that point, quality degradation is more readily visible.


On edit - consolidating posts:

^^for best results, use a 24" or higher monitor at its native resolution (which, nowadays, is 1920x1080 I'd presume). To compare, a 6" smartphone or 10" tablet, especially one at 500PPI to help shroud any dead pixels, won't show too much difference, since HD is meant for larger screens as a general rule - which is the literal elephant in the room, metaphorically speaking...:

https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/by-size/size-to-distance-relationship
 
Last edited:
Still not there, IMO. The eyes continue to be a problem for AI upscalers, and this one seems to have obliterated too much detail overall. Everything is way too smoothed.

It's still edge enhancement at its core. It's come a long way and for native-VT interlace material there's a huge benefit. But not from shows filmed then edited on VT. The overdone areas next to underdone, hence the waxy look, are still near-comical in effect. It's why nothing like this is sold on DVD or blu-ray, because in some ways it's uglier - despite the enhancing.

I will say this; how algorithms can alter the palette/histogram to changer lighting temperature and artificially expand the gamut without too much crush or bloom - it's legitimately impressive, don't get me wrong. But adding actual detail? Nope. AI still isn't doing much of that beyond the edges. But it's clever in how much it can do, to eke out that much more detail. It can be used for print media a lot more effectively, but one still needs a high resolution source image for the upscaling to be convincing. 480p (amalgamated 2x240i fields) being scaled 400% isn't going to be anything like a native 1080P image doubled in size, which is why the ENT blu-ray set is passable - the live action footage was scanned, but the CGI f/x (rendered at 720P) were upscaled. They look a tad soft, but not distractingly so. AI on upscaled VT is still very much distracting - which falls back to why the application of the technology is chosen carefully; I have seen some sitcoms and game shows where it's used to impressive effect.
 
That was a metaphor and not literally concerning food. My point is that - on the whole - people will notice qualitative differences and maybe even eventually care for those distinctions. Still, regardless of how people truly feel, I vigorously prefer that we elevate the lowest common denominator by adhering to higher standards instead of giving them the bare minimum and leaving it at that.

Oh brother...
 
Oh, I can see the quality difference. But I simply don't care about it -at all-, other than as a curiosity. I'm perfectly content to (re-)watch it in the original format till the end of my days, because that's how it was originally recorded (or at least, released).

I might be disappointed if a modern series would have that lower video quality, but that's a very different story.

I'm also not one to watch -say- colorized historical footage (that was black and white in the original). It simply isn't authentic.

I might accept a digitally restored historical reel that had been very badly degraded, but even then I appreciate it when they don't try to 'enhance' it beyond what the quality of the pristine original presumably would have been.

But that's just for me personally. There's nothing wrong with such enhancements; they're simply not for me.
 
Last edited:
Oh, I can see the quality difference. But I simply don't care about it -at all-, other than as a curiosity. I'm perfectly content to (re-)watch it in the original format till the end of my days, because that's how it was originally recorded (or at least, released).

I might be disappointed if a modern series would have that lower video quality, but that's a very different story.

I'm also not one to watch -say- colorized historical footage (that was black and white in the original). It simply isn't authentic.

I might accept a digitally restored historical reel that had been very badly degraded, but even then I appreciate it when they don't try to 'enhance' it beyond what the quality of the pristine original presumably would have been.

But that's just for me personally. There's nothing wrong with such enhancements; they're simply not for me.
Same here. So it's hard for me to justify the expense when the draw is not there.
 
This guy has been doing a lot of scenes in recent weeks. Personally, I'd rather have this much improvement over the DVD's if I could have it, no matter who does the work.

There's a couple YT channels that AI up music videos in 4K and sometimes 60fps quality. For the most part, I like what they do, but I couldn't see that being OK for DS9. Just improve the quality enough for blu-ray.

As far as coloration, remember how far into the blue range the first ST movie blu-rays were.

Some of the best scenes too.
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
 
The fleet battles are probably the single thing that I care about the least.
The WWLB documentary shows that they at least think that's what people wanna see. DS9 became known for its fleet battle scenes, which were not seen in Trek before.
 
*snort* At that point, they may as well have called the series Star Wars (assuming the name wasn't already copyrighted, anyhow).
 
  • Like
Reactions: kkt
The WWLB documentary shows that they at least think that's what people wanna see. DS9 became known for its fleet battle scenes, which were not seen in Trek before.
*snort* At that point, they may as well have called the series Star Wars (assuming the name wasn't already copyrighted, anyhow).

Which were enjoyable as were the battle scenes in TWOK and TUC, and some in TNG.

Star Trek has had a mix of space battles throughout it's history. I never understood the objection.
 
In my opinion, it's as good or somewhat better than the DVDs. However, it's LIGHTYEARS better than how DS9 currently looks on streaming (Crave, itunes and Netflix in Canada). Honestly , Just don't get why Paramount doesnt just spend some bucks and quietly use AI upscales for streaming . A couple of one man shows have done it, I'm sure Paramount can too.
 
Last edited:
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top