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FACT TREK—The Death Slot (or: The Flying Fickle Finger of Fate)

Yes. Yes we should. YMMV.

But in what context? That's the question. Are you addressing my specific, singular point -- whether a significant percentage of 1966 television audiences would have known better than to expect The Green Hornet to be as campy as Batman -- or wandering off into some broader, general discussion? Because it sounds like you're doing the latter, in which case we're talking past each other.
 
But in what context? That's the question. Are you addressing my specific, singular point -- whether a significant percentage of 1966 television audiences would have known better than to expect The Green Hornet to be as campy as Batman -- or wandering off into some broader, general discussion? Because it sounds like you're doing the latter, in which case we're talking past each other.

I’m both addressing your point and adding to a larger discussion. But you’re want to make it about your point alone, which I’m also trying to put into a broader landscape of television history and a larger institutional memory. Because that’s what is the point of this and many FACT TREK threads.

Also “Should we” doesn’t ask in “what context” and is a rather aggressive challenge. And suggest that your previous post is talking at us or taking past the rest of us.
 
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Also “Should we” doesn’t ask in “what context” and is a rather aggressive challenge.

You were the one who wrote "we should discuss it as societal memory." I was just rhetorically echoing your own choice of words, suggesting that your use of "should" there was too proscriptive -- too "aggressive," in your terms.
 
You were the one who wrote "we should discuss it as societal memory." I was just rhetorically echoing your own choice of words, suggesting that your use of "should" there was too proscriptive -- too "aggressive," in your terms.
I can take being called out. So you might’ve done that directly in the first place than the usual roundabout way. If I came off as prescriptive, my bad.

But your posts obviously only want to have a one-sided discussion, and challenge anyone who wants to add to it. So prescriptive pot meet kettle.
 
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Ironically I am presenting a Jazz Month show at my library playing 12 historic . . . 78s! The first jazz record ever made, a couple classic Louis-es (what’s the plural of Louis?), big band themes and the first bebop record.

Might be DJing at our local wine bar too this month.

Old things for the win.
 
Ironically I am presenting a Jazz Month show at my library playing 12 historic . . . 78s! The first jazz record ever made, a couple classic Louis-es (what’s the plural of Louis?), big band themes and the first bebop record.

Might be DJing at our local wine bar too this month.

Old things for the win.

Sweet! What's your library? (if you don't mind divulging)
 
To oversimplify, the main difference between the electronic media landscape then v. now is the shift from broadcasting to narrowcasting as the number of "channels" increases, and the ability to time-shift a program to consume at your leisure. I no longer have to choose between first-run Bewitched and Star Trek, as I can watch both. Streaming platforms serving programs sans overt commercials are another model, which don't lean on ratings but look at if a given program contributes to sign ups or keeps people signed up, which is why something as expensive as Cowboy Netbop doesn't get picked up, because the cost of it isn't counterbalanced by subscriptions.

Commonplace access to old radio shows in 1966 was arguably not much of a thing. Sure plenty of people over a certain age would have remembered The Green Hornet radio show, but more likely as a thing from the distant past and not something they'd have run into on Cartoon Network a decade after it originally aired.

Let's also not be too convinced that we have anything near "most" media preserved. While an accurate figure remains elusive, it's believed that the majority of all silent films are lost (most estimates put that number at >50%), many known only from their Copyright registrations. Many TV shows from the early days of TV are gone. Lost shows include the CBC's Space Command (only one kinescope is known to survive), virtually everything from DuMont Network is gone, as is every episode of The Shari Lewis Show. The major PBS affiliate in San Francisco has zero copies of its Turnabout women's issues series from 1978 (and it seemed lost until I recently found that the American Archive of Public Television has 51 of 52 of the episodes). Laugh-In survives in part because the videotapes were physically cut and could not be recorded over, hence not reused.

Even for the shows that do exist, they're not all out there. Ryan mentioned The Defenders, which was a big prestige multi-Emmy winning show in the first half of the 60s, but only the first of its four seasons is available on licensed media, with a few bootlegged straggler episodes on the internet. Often this is because a show had complicated rights issues and never really got into syndication, even if it had plenty of episodes.

As to pop culture modernity, let's not flatter ourselves. There are pop culture jokes in silent movies, but most of us are so far removed from the world that birthed them that we don't even realize a joke just flew past us (e.g. Buster Keaton mimics Felix the Cat in his film Go West). A lot of snappy catchphrases in old Warner Bros. cartoons are plays on specific lines from popular radio shows and advertisements, and some of the characters were themselves parodies of celebrities and characters of the time (Senator Claghorn, anyone?). Again, we just don't recognize them.
 
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To oversimplify, the main difference between the electronic media landscape then v. now is the shift from broadcasting to narrowcasting as the number of "channels" increases, and the ability to time-shift a program to consume at your leisure. I no longer have to choose between first-run Bewitched and Star Trek, as I can watch both.

Man. Bewitched isn't even on KGJ Channel 9 anymore, let alone having to make a choice (which would be a no-brainer...)

As to pop culture modernity, let's not flatter ourselves. There are pop culture jokes in silent movies, but most of us are so far removed from the world that birthed them that we don't even realize a joke just flew past us (e.g. Buster Keaton mimics Felix the Cat in his film Go West). A lot of snappy catchphrases in old Warner Bros. cartoons are plays on specific lines from popular radio shows and advertisements, and some of the characters where themselves parodies of celebrities of the time (Senator Claghorn, anyone?). Again, we just don't recognize them.

It is really interesting to type in memes in Twitter or Discord and see what comes up. There are plenty of Memes for Star Trek, but none for I, Spy (Cosby notwithstanding...) If you look up "Mission: Impossible", you only get Tom Cruise (indeed, none of the folks in our viewing audience knew that it was an ensemble show originally).

When we watch The Monkees or Hollywood Palace with other people, we spend half the time explaining why we were laughing so hard. It'll likely be the same with Laugh In.

(and don't get me started on how hilarious it is when Sammy Davis Jr. does his impressions -- more talent than the rest of the Rat Pack combined)
 
Back in the 70s,I used to listen to old radio serials on KSFO ( Bay Area residents will recognize the call letters) which broadcast them as part of their late night programming. I probably had an awareness of old time radio from watching movies from the same era. Not sure how I got turned on to the program or the station, it wasn't the usual fare of teens in the 70s. :lol:
 
Back in the 70s,I used to listen to old radio serials on KSFO ( Bay Area residents will recognize the call letters) which broadcast them as part of their late night programming. I probably had an awareness of old time radio from watching movies from the same era. Not sure how I got turned on to the program or the station, it wasn't the usual fare of teens in the 70s. :lol:

County Television Network, in the 2000s, would play old radio shows in the middle of the night, which I'd listen to when I couldn't sleep. That was really cool.
 
As to pop culture modernity, let's not flatter ourselves. There are pop culture jokes in silent movies, but most of us are so far removed from the world that birthed them that we don't even realize a joke just flew past us (e.g. Buster Keaton mimics Felix the Cat in his film Go West). A lot of snappy catchphrases in old Warner Bros. cartoons are plays on specific lines from popular radio shows and advertisements, and some of the characters where themselves parodies of celebrities of the time (Senator Claghorn, anyone?). Again, we just don't recognize them.

Frigging Looney Tunes is responsible for most of my early knowledge of 30's and 40's pop culture references. My dad had to explain a lot of it (he was always laughing harder at those moments than I was). Hell, a lot of those references outlasted the people and moments they were spoofing.

george-i-will-hug-him-and-pet-him-and-squeeze-him.gif


This lived way beyond Lon Chaney's performance. Which is a shame since "Of Mice and Men" was his best work.
 
Back in the 70s,I used to listen to old radio serials on KSFO ( Bay Area residents will recognize the call letters) which broadcast them as part of their late night programming. I probably had an awareness of old time radio from watching movies from the same era. Not sure how I got turned on to the program or the station, it wasn't the usual fare of teens in the 70s. :lol:
In the late seventies when I was a preteen, a local news-talk station used to run old-time radio programs on Sunday afternoons. Since I was largely raised by my grandparents (born in 1907 and 1915, respectively), what knowledge I possess of Depression and wartime era life was soaked up by osmosis from listening to their, and their the slicing friends and relatives', stories.
 
Frigging Looney Tunes is responsible for most of my early knowledge of 30's and 40's pop culture references. My dad had to explain a lot of it (he was always laughing harder at those moments than I was). Hell, a lot of those references outlasted the people and moments they were spoofing.

george-i-will-hug-him-and-pet-him-and-squeeze-him.gif


This lived way beyond Lon Chaney's performance. Which is a shame since "Of Mice and Men" was his best work.
I was watching a lot of old movies at the same time I was watching Looney Tunes so some of the gags and caricatures were easy to get. Plus some of of the actors from the 30s and 40s were s till around in the 60s and 70s and showing up on TV.
 
One of Laugh-In's stock gags was to make fun of its competition. Many episodes closed with Wolfgang professing his love for Lucy over on CBS, and in one segment they make a crack at competing networks' attempted knock-offs of their format:

ROWAN
It’s a UPI report says that the top Russian television show is just like Rowan and Martin's Laugh-In.

MARTIN
Well, if CBS can steal, why can't the Russians?​

There's also a couple of funny cross-overs between The Smothers Brothers and Laugh-In, which aired on CBS and NBC respectively. The final—and unaired—episode of the former had Dan Rowan subbing for Dick Smothers, who walks out at the top of the episode, and the following season the Brothers appeared on Laugh-In and Dick explains why Laugh-In is such a success, citing assets identical to their own recently-canceled series, to which Tommy says, "Why didn't we think of that?"

Another funny thing behind the scenes: the Laugh-In production team referred to their NBC program standards rep as "Dr. No".
 
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For a long time I didn't know that the abominable snowman in the Warner Brothers cartoon "The Abominable Snow Rabbit" was modelled on the character of Lennie from the movie "Of Mice and Men" until someone finally pointed it out to me.

On a different tack, one of my nieces, who was born in the '80s, is named Katie. A few years ago, at a family get together she introduced me to a friend of hers who also happened to be named Katie. So I said to them "A Tale of Two Katies". Although I can't see, I knew they had blank looks on their faces, my reference had flown right over their heads.

So I had to explain about the nineteenth century story "A Tale of Two Cities" by Charles Dickens, who they didn't know until I said he wrote "A Christmas Carol"< and then about the Merrie Melodies cartoon "A Tale of Two Kitties". My niece and her friend finally got it and now, everytime she's at one of our parties, the non-niece Katie always seeks me out because she gets a kick out of how I always call her "the other Katie".

Robert
 
When I was a kid a lot of the jokes in Loonie Toons and The Flintstones went over my head because I didn’t get the pop culture references. As I got older I began to clue in and get the joke, but before that it was just silly humour.

Loonie Toons had unusual music that I didn’t understand was opera or classical music until I got older. Loonie Toons introduced me to classical music.
 
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