FACT TREK—The Death Slot (or: The Flying Fickle Finger of Fate)
- Thread starter Maurice
- Start date
Also, I know thread drift is a thing...but I'm a little disappointed how little interest anyone seems to have in the actual reporting we did. I guess people would rather Monkee around.
c'est la vie...
Are you sure you don't mean 'Trekee around'?
Robert
Also, I know thread drift is a thing...but I'm a little disappointed how little interest anyone seems to have in the actual reporting we did. I guess people would rather Monkee around.
c'est la vie...
Sorry about that. I had a whole paragraph about how I liked your article and that the move to Friday happened in the second season (but not to 10pm); I've been reading about it in the 'zines for Feb and Mar '67, but it didn't seem consequential enough so I took it out.
The use of session musicians and not band members in American recording in the 60s is common knowledge, not needing of citation, and not “dubious,” as described above. One of the reasons so many Monkees fans get incensed about “They didn’t play their own instruments” used as rationale for keeping them out of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame — because essentially no one else did either. 60s pop/rock anyway. Nor in Nashville, where the first call musicians were the A Team. Records had to be “perfect” and it was too risky to use people who were merely danged good.
Especially since at some sessions songs were chosen at the session, keys were tried out and chosen, arrangements crafted, etc.
Heck even in the 70s it was a big deal for Billy Joel to put his foot down and say he wanted HIS guys, his road band, and not studio musicians in the studio. But in the 70s, it became ok for bands to take weeks in the studio and create on the fly. The Beatles, due to being a big part of Britain’s GNP (not kidding) were allowed that in the 60s. I know of no other then, and that was in UK, which had different customs. US sessions were three hours long (timed for union purposes) and often the expectation was four songs done! in three hours.
Read the book about the Wrecking Crew. Watch the documentary. Read interviews with Carol Kaye or Brian Wilson. (The Beach Boys didn’t play; Glen Campbell was a guit prodigy, part of what later became known as the Wrecking Crew group of session musicians. By being known he was drafted as a short term Beach Boy when Brian had his breakdown and stopped touring.) This is very known stuff
Edit, just saw more comments above. Tijuana Brass was a concept. Yes, the real Herb (twice — he would overdub himself just slightly out of tune) and session musicians who then had to be “cast” to go on the road. The Mamas and Papas were very dependent on studio techniques to get their vocal sound. I just saw them on a Sullivan rerun and a high-looking Mama Cass says “start that recording” as a joke right before they lip sync. I’m guessing Ed was peeved.
Especially since at some sessions songs were chosen at the session, keys were tried out and chosen, arrangements crafted, etc.
Heck even in the 70s it was a big deal for Billy Joel to put his foot down and say he wanted HIS guys, his road band, and not studio musicians in the studio. But in the 70s, it became ok for bands to take weeks in the studio and create on the fly. The Beatles, due to being a big part of Britain’s GNP (not kidding) were allowed that in the 60s. I know of no other then, and that was in UK, which had different customs. US sessions were three hours long (timed for union purposes) and often the expectation was four songs done! in three hours.
Read the book about the Wrecking Crew. Watch the documentary. Read interviews with Carol Kaye or Brian Wilson. (The Beach Boys didn’t play; Glen Campbell was a guit prodigy, part of what later became known as the Wrecking Crew group of session musicians. By being known he was drafted as a short term Beach Boy when Brian had his breakdown and stopped touring.) This is very known stuff
Edit, just saw more comments above. Tijuana Brass was a concept. Yes, the real Herb (twice — he would overdub himself just slightly out of tune) and session musicians who then had to be “cast” to go on the road. The Mamas and Papas were very dependent on studio techniques to get their vocal sound. I just saw them on a Sullivan rerun and a high-looking Mama Cass says “start that recording” as a joke right before they lip sync. I’m guessing Ed was peeved.
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In the sixties it wasn't unusual for Bands to bring in studio musicians to add some polish to certain things. It wasn't that the band never played their own instruments for recording, as the majority of them did. But the use of Studio musicians was not an uncommon occurrence either. And it's just a fact that for whatever reason at the time the Monkees were somehow singled out for the fact that they did use Studio musicians for the majority of their recordings, because it was known that they were created for the show; and the show was not created for them (IE They were a musical group BEFORE the show.)
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They almost used an existing band before casting the four pp we know; I thought it was writer/producers Boyce and Hart's band, but wikipedia says Lovin Spoonful.
How did we get on this topic?
The Spoonful might have played on their records. But many to most bands were significantly supplanted by session cats.
The Doors didn't have a bass player. Manzarek played a Rhodes bass kbrd perched on top of his Rhodes piano in concert. So they hired studio bass players for the records.
Speaking of bass, Peter Tork of the Monkees didn't actually play bass (his assigned, on-camera instrument) in studio on the one Monkees-as-band-album. The producer was bassist from the Turtles and Tork could move over to keys, as he does on camera sometimes. So even their one real attempt to play as they looked on camera wasn't really it. Still love 'em anyway, like TOS. Logic be damned!
CCR might have played in studio, they sound so rough. But now we're getting into the 70s where "authenticity" was prized over perfection. It worked for Billy Joel. Definitely a more lively change in vibe when he had his guys in studio though admittedly took much longer. He wrote such terrific songs (began with the melody by the way -- I just read his autobiography), but many of them were worked out in studio!
How did we get on this topic?
The Spoonful might have played on their records. But many to most bands were significantly supplanted by session cats.
The Doors didn't have a bass player. Manzarek played a Rhodes bass kbrd perched on top of his Rhodes piano in concert. So they hired studio bass players for the records.
Speaking of bass, Peter Tork of the Monkees didn't actually play bass (his assigned, on-camera instrument) in studio on the one Monkees-as-band-album. The producer was bassist from the Turtles and Tork could move over to keys, as he does on camera sometimes. So even their one real attempt to play as they looked on camera wasn't really it. Still love 'em anyway, like TOS. Logic be damned!
CCR might have played in studio, they sound so rough. But now we're getting into the 70s where "authenticity" was prized over perfection. It worked for Billy Joel. Definitely a more lively change in vibe when he had his guys in studio though admittedly took much longer. He wrote such terrific songs (began with the melody by the way -- I just read his autobiography), but many of them were worked out in studio!
Honestly, the way the show was put together, using session musicians on the early albums was the only real option. The show typically had two songs per episode. That's a LOT of material to generate in a short amount of time, and the producers didn't have time to wait for the four Monkees to gel musically. They only got a chance to play on their own records from Headquarters on because they raised a stink about it and producers Bert Schneider and Bob Rafelson believed in them enough to give them a chance. But before that, they went with proven hitmakers like Don Kirshner ("The Man With The Golden Ear"), his stable of songwriters, and studio musicians.
Boyce and Hart auditioned to be members of the group, but they didn't make it and were just retained as songwriters. They did write the three songs used in the pilot ("The Monkees Theme", "I Wanna Be Free", and "Let's Dance On"), and you can hear their vocals on the first version of the pilot. The Monkees initially just lip synced to Boyce and Hart's vocals, but the producers replaced all three songs with Monkees' rerecorded versions after the series sold. You can see the first version of The Monkees' pilot with the Boyce and Hart vocals here. Micky Dolenz is billed under his old Circus Boy stage name of Micky Braddock.
Peter was quite a good guitarist, though. And every once in a while, they'll have him strumming live in an episode, which is cool.
He's also adorable.
It's interesting -- as the show went on, they'd show them playing their instruments (or at least convincingly miming, of course) whereas in early episodes, they never show them playing.
Headquarters comes out in a couple of months for us, but we listened to it early by accident. It's a great record. Even if Randy Scouse Git sounds like Flowers on the Wall.
I wouldn't for a second deny that the use of studio musicians in the American music scene was extremely common. But bands who played their own instruments in the studio were far from unheard of. And the dubious claim I was disputing was that there was a rule against it. Show me the rule. It would have been a national, industry-wide thing, so that would have to have been a union rule or congressional legislation.
I missed the claim about a rule, sorry. This drift in the conversation has me wondering actually about bands that were “allowed” to play their own instruments.
Also, I’ll stop going on about the Monkees after this, but for the time travelers in this thread, Headquarters is great, went to #1 in 67, then a little album about a lonely hearts club band came out. Wait till you get to Pisces, Aquarius, Capricorn, and Jones, ltd., I think it surpasses HQ, and it is the most Nesmithy of the good albums.
Also, I’ll stop going on about the Monkees after this, but for the time travelers in this thread, Headquarters is great, went to #1 in 67, then a little album about a lonely hearts club band came out. Wait till you get to Pisces, Aquarius, Capricorn, and Jones, ltd., I think it surpasses HQ, and it is the most Nesmithy of the good albums.
So...who did Bruce Dickenson tell to add more cowbell?
The session Cow Bell player
Sweet, thank you for the heads up. We actually have all of our records lined up chronologically -- on "release date", we move them to the period room, put them on our 1965 turntable, and boogie!
Obviously the session thing is going to be a case by case basis. For performers who are primarily vocalists like Elvis, the Mamas and Papas, Aretha or Sinatra. It's no surprise they use session players. I was a little shocked when I discovered the Beach Boys didn't play on their records Since you think of them as a band. Which they were on the road.
I am enjoying the digression. Certainly more than threads for posting episode scripts one line at a time.
There are other forums and other boards for discussing many things, but talking about the pop culture of the TOS era in a TOS forum provides an interesting, wider perspective on the show. Unless there is a rule that the stated topic of the thread must be adhered to until the end. I don't see it in the FAQ.
I do appreciate that the mods stepped in to stop the vitriol, though. Thank you.
To the point of the article, this line struck me:
"Speculation aside, all we can know is what’s apparent only with 20/20 hindsight: Star Trek had a longevity that Laugh-In didn’t. But that’s not to say NBC made the wrong choice…for NBC."
I've said before that the difference between Trek and other shows is the after-show. We watch Mission Impossible every week, and it's generally good, but when it's over, it's over. Sure, we make Martin Landau as Martin Bormann jokes, but that's about it. Ditto most every other show on television. They are entertainment, good, bad, or indifferent.
Star Trek lingers. It provokes thought. It invites stories in the universe. Where the science is bad, it incites discussion on what should have been done. When the scientifiction concept is innovative, it sparks pondering (see Lorelei's interesting bit at the end of our "Errand of Mercy" review.)
Laugh In was timely. It was funny. It was even somewhat revolutionary. And when it was over, it was done. That it outlived Trek is no surprise -- it was better for longer, while Trek was getting a bit played out in its current incarnation. But its after-show has lasted decades.
There are other forums and other boards for discussing many things, but talking about the pop culture of the TOS era in a TOS forum provides an interesting, wider perspective on the show. Unless there is a rule that the stated topic of the thread must be adhered to until the end. I don't see it in the FAQ.
I do appreciate that the mods stepped in to stop the vitriol, though. Thank you.
To the point of the article, this line struck me:
"Speculation aside, all we can know is what’s apparent only with 20/20 hindsight: Star Trek had a longevity that Laugh-In didn’t. But that’s not to say NBC made the wrong choice…for NBC."
I've said before that the difference between Trek and other shows is the after-show. We watch Mission Impossible every week, and it's generally good, but when it's over, it's over. Sure, we make Martin Landau as Martin Bormann jokes, but that's about it. Ditto most every other show on television. They are entertainment, good, bad, or indifferent.
Star Trek lingers. It provokes thought. It invites stories in the universe. Where the science is bad, it incites discussion on what should have been done. When the scientifiction concept is innovative, it sparks pondering (see Lorelei's interesting bit at the end of our "Errand of Mercy" review.)
Laugh In was timely. It was funny. It was even somewhat revolutionary. And when it was over, it was done. That it outlived Trek is no surprise -- it was better for longer, while Trek was getting a bit played out in its current incarnation. But its after-show has lasted decades.
Thanks for that.
I've been reading books by TV writers and producers who worked in the 60s and we've been digging through Broadcasting in addition to Variety and it really does change your perspective on the choices the networks made and why, and NBC becomes far less of a villain than fandom has painted it for the past half century. Not to say they always made the right decision for their shows, but Star Trek was an odd animal that had fairly low affiliate coverage and difficulty landing consistent sponsorship, and there was some conflict between the programming and the sales side at the network. They had roughly 33 prime time shows per year to slot, and it was impossible to give each one its ideal time slot and ideal lead-in.
Shows with better ratings than Trek were often canceled, so the fact it stayed on the air for three years was something of a miracle. The Monkees was never a huge ratings hit but its ancillary revenues (let's not go into Monkees business again, please) made it worth keeping on the air for a while. Gilligan always pulled in higher numbers than Trek but its appeal was strongest with children, so it didn't command great ad rates.
I've been reading books by TV writers and producers who worked in the 60s and we've been digging through Broadcasting in addition to Variety and it really does change your perspective on the choices the networks made and why, and NBC becomes far less of a villain than fandom has painted it for the past half century. Not to say they always made the right decision for their shows, but Star Trek was an odd animal that had fairly low affiliate coverage and difficulty landing consistent sponsorship, and there was some conflict between the programming and the sales side at the network. They had roughly 33 prime time shows per year to slot, and it was impossible to give each one its ideal time slot and ideal lead-in.
Shows with better ratings than Trek were often canceled, so the fact it stayed on the air for three years was something of a miracle. The Monkees was never a huge ratings hit but its ancillary revenues (let's not go into Monkees business again, please) made it worth keeping on the air for a while. Gilligan always pulled in higher numbers than Trek but its appeal was strongest with children, so it didn't command great ad rates.
