Isn't it just a case of the more emotionally invested you are in a show the more you more easily overlook it's flaws.. The stand out character for me was the EMH, Seven was decent enough but I tended to dislike the shift to what seemed to be a power trio of Janeway, Seven and the EMH in the later seasons of the show.
Excessive Criticism of "STAR TREK VOYAGER"
- Thread starter LJones41
- Start date
Isn't it just a case of the more emotionally invested you are in a show the more you more easily overlook it's flaws.. The stand out character for me was the EMH, Seven was decent enough but I tended to dislike the shift to what seemed to be a power trio of Janeway, Seven and the EMH in the later seasons of the show.
I think there is truth to that and I think that pretty much sums up this thread. Voyager was the series I watched mainly in my teen years and I did love the characters. I too didn't like the power trio, but I would argue Tom and B'Elanna did get a lot to do despite that. They did get married afterall.
I feel like when Jeri Taylor left the series (around season 4 I think), anything that remained consistent about the show began to fall apart. I feel like the most offensive episode that backs up the "no continuity" complaint is Ashes to Ashes, where a dead crew member invented specifically for this story supposedly died back in the third season or whatever, and had a romantic relationship with Harry Kim.
Okay, so... why didn't we ever see her before?
TNG could get away with this because they stayed in Federation space for the most part and could stop off at starbases to unload and take on crew. Voyager was stuck from the beginning with 150/120/140 crew members, they couldn't gain more than they lost.
Okay, so... why didn't we ever see her before?
TNG could get away with this because they stayed in Federation space for the most part and could stop off at starbases to unload and take on crew. Voyager was stuck from the beginning with 150/120/140 crew members, they couldn't gain more than they lost.
Pick an actress from before Ashes to Ashes, who ####ed Harry off camera, and the died off camera, and then came back in Ashes to Ashes as an alternate to the character who was in Ashes to Ashes.
http://www.loony-archivist.com/lowerdecks/crew.html
Tal celest for ####s sake!
Books is beautiful and she was in 13 episodes. (Extra with no lines)
Henley is a little older than Harry, but he has a mommy complex, so it's probably perfect.
(That's weird. The actress who plays Brooks, her real name is Henley.)
Jenkins actually had a working relationship with Harry from Warhead.
Ane Jetal. Wow. It's not just me, but all the extras are prettier than Jeri Ryan, right?
Kaplan. African-Korean-American babies are cute.
####ing Stadi. Dead in the pilot. Which would mean that their pre-existing sexual relationship consisted of sex in broom closest, which happened to other people in the first episode of Star Gate Universe, so it's not entirely out of the question.
Marla Gilmore, one of the Equinox 5 is who really needed a call back, but Jenkins is probably the most Harry to couple Harry with, short of a Delanney.
That's Vertigo?
If the twin sister he liked died, so Harry finally relented and let the other twin foaming at the mouth for him date him because the twin he wanted bought the farm, only to have the first twin come back to life and get all pissy about how Kim should have noticed that she was playing hard to get.
Dying: Hardcore playing hard to get.
http://www.loony-archivist.com/lowerdecks/crew.html
Tal celest for ####s sake!
Books is beautiful and she was in 13 episodes. (Extra with no lines)
Henley is a little older than Harry, but he has a mommy complex, so it's probably perfect.
(That's weird. The actress who plays Brooks, her real name is Henley.)
Jenkins actually had a working relationship with Harry from Warhead.
Ane Jetal. Wow. It's not just me, but all the extras are prettier than Jeri Ryan, right?
Kaplan. African-Korean-American babies are cute.
####ing Stadi. Dead in the pilot. Which would mean that their pre-existing sexual relationship consisted of sex in broom closest, which happened to other people in the first episode of Star Gate Universe, so it's not entirely out of the question.
Marla Gilmore, one of the Equinox 5 is who really needed a call back, but Jenkins is probably the most Harry to couple Harry with, short of a Delanney.
That's Vertigo?
If the twin sister he liked died, so Harry finally relented and let the other twin foaming at the mouth for him date him because the twin he wanted bought the farm, only to have the first twin come back to life and get all pissy about how Kim should have noticed that she was playing hard to get.
Dying: Hardcore playing hard to get.
"The Audience" isn't a nebulous whole.
It isn't.
And you know what? Beyond gets ripped for all kinds of plot holes and nitpicks.
VOY was a missed opportunity, pure and simple. It had its ups and downs, like any other series, but it lacked the chemistry that had defined TOS and TNG, and later DS9. There was other scifi shows on TV, as well as the hype around the new Star Wars film, starting in 1998. VOY had competition but was unwilling to make changes, beyond adding Seven of Nine (rolls eyes) in response to this competition.
In short, VOY didn't adapt.
Has nothing to do with fickleness. It has to do with characters, writing, earning goodwill and a myriad of other factors that such blanket statements fail to grasp the nuance of.
FTFY.
Hey, thanks
I enjoyed Ashes to Ashes, but it could have worked better if brought back a character we had seen before. This is were having a group of recurring secondaries come into play we get to know these people, so if one dies and comes back later we could get more emotionally invested. Instead of it seeming as yet another case of Harry being unlucky in love.
Or they could bring one of them back after four years to murder him.
I`m a huge Voyagerfan, but mainly because of the characters (not so much because of the stories). I very like all of them and I like them more than all the others in the Trek universe. But there are many things I don`t like (and so I can understand why people are criticising Voyager.)
- the reset button- many loosing ends like the Borg baby - the crew of the Equinox, where are they? - why to kill off such great caracters like Suder and Seska- the Starfleet/Marquis tension, why did they wrap it up so quickly- And a importend problem for me is the Janeway in the later seasons. Some days ago someone posted a interview with Robert Beltran, where he exactly spoke about this problem:"Part of the problem, notes Beltran, is that both Janeway and Seven are painted in some way as superhuman. "It's just so boring. If you think about it, why do Janeway and Seven of Nine need anybody? They're so smart and so capable, they can do anything. The captain has all the answers, and Seven of Nine has her Borg knowledge, so why do they need the rest of us?" He mentioned another problem: " I don't think there's any relationship at all between her and her first officer; I haven't felt anything, other than 'Do this Chakotay' or 'Go see about that, Chakotay.' There's no friendship; it's completely written out."
The interview http://www.jetclover.com/tri/chats8.htm
- the reset button- many loosing ends like the Borg baby - the crew of the Equinox, where are they? - why to kill off such great caracters like Suder and Seska- the Starfleet/Marquis tension, why did they wrap it up so quickly- And a importend problem for me is the Janeway in the later seasons. Some days ago someone posted a interview with Robert Beltran, where he exactly spoke about this problem:"Part of the problem, notes Beltran, is that both Janeway and Seven are painted in some way as superhuman. "It's just so boring. If you think about it, why do Janeway and Seven of Nine need anybody? They're so smart and so capable, they can do anything. The captain has all the answers, and Seven of Nine has her Borg knowledge, so why do they need the rest of us?" He mentioned another problem: " I don't think there's any relationship at all between her and her first officer; I haven't felt anything, other than 'Do this Chakotay' or 'Go see about that, Chakotay.' There's no friendship; it's completely written out."
The interview http://www.jetclover.com/tri/chats8.htm
Like Ani Jetal for example (if the actress that played her was available again)?
Nancy "Ani Jetal" Bell is typecast.
Legends of Tomorrow (TV Series) 2016
Elderly Woman
Olympus (TV Series) 2015
Old Woman
Dead Hearts (Short) 2014
Old Lola Littleton
Possession 2008
Elderly Park Woman
Littleman 2006
Older Lady
Supernatural (TV Series) 2005
Old Woman Spirit
Legends of Tomorrow (TV Series) 2016
Elderly Woman
Olympus (TV Series) 2015
Old Woman
Dead Hearts (Short) 2014
Old Lola Littleton
Possession 2008
Elderly Park Woman
Littleman 2006
Older Lady
Supernatural (TV Series) 2005
Old Woman Spirit
"Latent Image" was another one of VOY better outings.
A great episode in my opinion. Great performance by Robert Picardo as well.
I agree with this. I like Voyager. It's fun and I don't take it as seriously as some. Never have.
I see the plot holes and inconsistencies in all of the Star Trek shows. They are legion but if I spent my time listing them and pondering over them I would cease to enjoy them. IF there is the possibility of a reasonable off screen explanation I just go with that.
It is interesting that people who love the other shows will accept 'reasonable' offscreen explanations for their favorite but blast it on the show that they don't like. I try to not get worked up over it. It's just human nature.
I completely agree with this. I love all the series but they were written by humans who make mistakes and who have a bottom line to stick to. I love having discussions abut the shows but there comes a point where you dig too deep and it looses the enjoyment. There is a line between nitpicking and discussion
I can enjoy VOY, and there are still episodes that I'll watch just for the fun of it all. VOY is a simple, episodic adventure type of show that has its moments.
However, my biggest struggle with VOY is the characters. As for other shows, I personally have a tough time enjoying TNG as well, and can find just as much plot holes in that show as any other.
But, can I sit down and just enjoy VOY? Yeah, usually. I just think it could have been better given its premise.
I mostly enjoy the episodes where Picardo has more than a couple of lines. His performance makes me forget about the shortcomings of the show.
Definitely.
