Evidence of SNW being a possible alternate timeline from TOS

[Ovation]

About inconsistency and timelines.

As an historian, I can absolutely assert that inconsistencies in historical accounts are innumerable and at any given point, records are always incomplete. And that’s for one timeline, in the real world, that we can test against. Trek is not a period piece designed to fit flawlessly together. It’s a 60 year old set of stories intended to entertain, not interlock with precision, created and produced by literally thousands of people in some capacity across those decades. Moreover, as fiction, it is not beholden to the expectations of meeting the rigours of historical research (even the best of which is never perfect).

One can always wish for perfect consistency, as impossible as it is to achieve, or even merely wish for better than what currently exists—but I can say with very high confidence that the degree of consistency often demanded of Trek, and other long running franchises, is not realistic. So R instead of T, Vulcan instead of Vulcanian, class of 78, mind melds and their timing, etc., each is far less inconsistent than many real world examples across the academic field of history. We should all be amazed it hangs together as well as it does (I often wish historical records and works were as good).

 

[UssGlenn]

Basically update the graphics on the screen and have the winky blinky panels be screen savers and work as touch screens. They could update the corridors by having them the same size and build but using shiny material like they used in SNW. Basically enough upgrades to make it more updated for today's tech. But not so much where the classic look os gone.

I like what SNW has done, but I probably would have taken a similar route as what you described if I'd been in charge. That approach has never been done. In A Mirror Darkly didn't go far enough to count. Basically, If you were to blur images of both the original and the updated version by some percentage, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. The question is, how much blur are we talking about?

 

[fireproof78]

Trek is not a period piece designed to fit flawlessly together. It’s a 60 year old set of stories intended to entertain, not interlock with precision, created and produced by literally thousands of people in some capacity across those decades. Moreover, as fiction, it is not beholden to the expectations of meeting the rigours of historical research (even the best of which is never perfect).

Thank you! This is exactly so. Treating it as history basically locks is in to a 60s interpretation of the future.

 

[TRON JA307020]

I like what SNW has done, but I probably would have taken a similar route as what you described if I'd been in charge. That approach has never been done. In A Mirror Darkly didn't go far enough to count. Basically, If you were to blur images of both the original and the updated version by some percentage, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. The question is, how much blur are we talking about?

Yeah I wish they would have gotten it closer to what we saw in the cage and tos. Certainly not a carbon copy but the look down with tweaks to materials used and the way we see graphics and computer functions. Im honestly not sure why they even changed the uniforms so much. I was a fan of the ribbed turtle neck uniforms with the cool wrap around flap jackets.

 

[cooleddie74]

The only thing "alternate" about this is that Carol at that time had no name.

 

[TRON JA307020]

The only thing "alternate" about this is that Carol at that time had no name.

I love Where No Man Has Gone Before. In my top 5 favorite episodes. Everything from the sets, costumes, camera work, lighting, acting, writing are just great. For a 1966 tv show the quality is phenomenal. I watch it once or so every year or two.

 

[cooleddie74]

It's a helluva sophomore effort for a potential series, and for a second commissioned pilot episode.

 

[Hellbird]

I like what SNW has done, but I probably would have taken a similar route as what you described if I'd been in charge. That approach has never been done. In A Mirror Darkly didn't go far enough to count. Basically, If you were to blur images of both the original and the updated version by some percentage, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. The question is, how much blur are we talking about?

Vaseline over your eyeballs.

 

[Ovation]

It's a helluva sophomore effort for a potential series, and for a second commissioned pilot episode.

My favourite episode of Trek across all series (and I’ve seen them all).

 

[TRON JA307020]

My favourite episode of Trek across all series (and I’ve seen them all).

It'd just such high concept sci fi tv for 1966. Seeing Gary's descent into a mad god and Kirk having to see his friend slip away is just great drama.

Vaseline over your eyeballs.

Lol. Yeah. We might be able to just make out the colors of the bridge and uniforms. Lol

 

[Rowdy Roddy McDowall]

It's not particularly uncommon in superhero comic books for one writer to retcon another writer's story from 20-30 years before.

Englehart did a storyline in the 1980s where the West Coast Avenger Mockingbird let the western "hero" Phantom Rider fall to his death after he drugged, manipulated and raped her. This led to the end of her marriage with Hawkeye.. . . .

I still wish they'd retcon the Wasp's idiotic comment in classic AVENGERS 179 that while she sympathizes with a hawk-like mutant, she's still got to side with her blue-eyed lover. How was this cretin ever elected future Chairwoman? Strange world indeed, but I'll no longer trek there.

 

[BillJ]

Do current TOS novels read like something from the 1960s?

Language evolves, so I, even though I wasn't around, would say no. But reading them? I can see the words in my head being uttered by those characters. They are very respectful to the source material. Technology is the technology of TOS, the way they describe the sets and ships are descriptions of TOS sets and ships. Heck, I'm wanting to say that the Eugenics Wars were still in the 1990's and it made sense based on the story that was being told.

The novels have never gone hog wild updating things, even though they probably could've gotten away with it.

 

[cooleddie74]

In a way you sort of got your wish depending on which part of Abrams and streaming Trek you watch. The Kelvin Timeline movies and Section 31 still have the wars in the 1990s. So even Kurtzman Trek has them happening at different times and all depending on the show or movie. 2030s or 2040s in DSC, PIC and SNW, while S31 has the Eugenics Wars Augment character being from the end of the 20th century.

 

[BillJ]

In a way you sort of got your wish depending on which part of Abrams and streaming Trek you watch. The Kelvin Timeline movies and Section 31 still have the wars in the 1990s. So even Kurtzman Trek has them happening at different times and all depending on the show or movie. 2030s or 2040s in DSC, PIC, SNW, while S31 has the Eugenics Wars Augment character being from the end of the 20th century.

I think it does show that internally, SNW and TOS are two different entities. Which is the way it should be. If it isn't an alternate universe, SNW is definitely an entity "inspired by the original Star Trek", it is still its own thing.

I do wonder, all these writers rooms sharing a single universe never checked with each other to decide what exactly they were taking from TOS and what they were trashing.

 

[fireproof78]

all these writers rooms sharing a single universe never checked with each other to decide what exactly they were taking from TOS and what they were trashing.

They usually don't.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Language evolves, so I, even though I wasn't around, would say no. But reading them? I can see the words in my head being uttered by those characters. They are very respectful to the source material. Technology is the technology of TOS, the way they describe the sets and ships are descriptions of TOS sets and ships. Heck, I'm wanting to say that the Eugenics Wars were still in the 1990's and it made sense based on the story that was being told.

The novels have never gone hog wild updating things, even though they probably could've gotten away with it.

I'm talking about how they read. Themes and plot. Saying "Kirk's gold green uniform was torn at the shoulder as the Gorn attacked" or "The multi-colored lights flashed on Sulu's panel" isn't what I'm talking about. That the easy part. (No offense to our writer friends)

@Greg Cox , @Christopher or @KRAD definitely would know more than me, but I doubt the writers are looking to recreate the 60s when they put pen to paper for a TOS novel. Especially some of the more "problematic" ideas from that era that creeped into TOS. I think they come at TOS with a current attitude. Finding the character's voice is important. And some are better at it that others. If I can hear Kirk or Picard or Kira in my head when I'm reading, then they've done a good job. I think the writers and performers SNW have done a good job with legacy characters. I can get the complaints about Spock. They've gone unexpected places there. But Kirk and Uhura are well done. As is Scotty.

It's been a while since I've read a TOS novel, but I seem to recall them "fleshing out" the tech on occasion. and even adding a thing or. No idea how SNW has or will impact their storytelling.

 

[Detached Nacelle]

In a way you sort of got your wish depending on which part of Abrams and streaming Trek you watch. The Kelvin Timeline movies and Section 31 still have the wars in the 1990s. So even Kurtzman Trek has them happening at different times and all depending on the show or movie. 2030s or 2040s in DSC, PIC and SNW, while S31 has the Eugenics Wars Augment character being from the end of the 20th century.

If Alok Sahar were born in 1999 he'd still be from the 20th century and the timing would all still work. It's a stretch but not the stretchiest stretch we've ever taken.

 

[TRON JA307020]

I think it does show that internally, SNW and TOS are two different entities. Which is the way it should be. If it isn't an alternate universe, SNW is definitely an entity "inspired by the original Star Trek", it is still its own thing.

I do wonder, all these writers rooms sharing a single universe never checked with each other to decide what exactly they were taking from TOS and what they were trashing.

Thats the way I look at it bill. There is just way more evidence that we have an alternate universe instead of the prime or just a who l e reboot that isnt an alternate universe bit as you said SNW is its own thing. Basically just a clean reboot of the trek universe.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I think I've said this already, but I see SNW kinda like Smallville, in that you know where everyone is gonna end up but they're getting there their own way and some of the characters are totally different interpretations. Maybe it happened this way, maybe it happened another way, take it or leave it.

I'm just glad I'm not the one writing the tie-in books who has to reconcile this stuff. As far as I have seen in the Eaglemoss books from the 2010s, they're just putting Enterprise (2250's) and Enterprise (2260's) next to each other at their official sizes and talking about the ship having "many refits through it's lifetime"

 

[TRON JA307020]

I think I've said this already, but I see SNW kinda like Smallville, in that you know where everyone is gonna end up but they're getting there their own way and some of the characters are totally different interpretations. Maybe it happened this way, maybe it happened another way, take it or leave it.

I'm just glad I'm not the one writing the tie-in books who has to reconcile this stuff. As far as I have seen in the Eaglemoss books from the 2010s, they're just putting Enterprise (2250's) and Enterprise (2260's) next to each other at their official sizes and talking about the ship having "many refits through it's lifetime"

Yeah reconciling it must be difficult. Yeah multiple refits could explain it to some degree.