Spoilers Everyone's native language

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by F. King Daniel, Feb 8, 2019.

  1. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Adira coming out had nothing to do with fear of not being accepted. Rather, Adira is at a young enough age where they likely only realized relatively recently they were non-binary, thus they have only been telling people they are close to. Even in an all accepting utopia, young people are still going to grapple with self-identity during their formative years. If Adira were older, I'd agree, it would make no sense to have a coming out scene, but as they are a teenager, such a scene makes perfect sense, regardless what time period it takes place in.
     
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  2. Agony_Boothb

    Agony_Boothb Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    This was address in an interview with Blu De Barrio I believe. The writers and Blu were aware that by the 23rd/32nd centuries 'coming out' in the traditional sense would probably no longer be required. But it was consciously done in the way it was to acknowledge and honour that it is still difficult for people to come out in the 21st century. Later one we see that the crew refer to Adira as 'they' without a second thought, so obviously it was no big deal.
     
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  3. Awesome Possum

    Awesome Possum Let's Fly Moderator

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    The thing that was really important was the Stamets and the rest of the crew didn't question it or even react, they just immediately began referring to Adira with the correct pronouns without a second thought. It's so accepted at that point that it isn't a big deal, it's just learning more about someone you work with. Or in Stamets' case, learn more about who your child is.
     
  4. eschaton

    eschaton Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    My own presumption is there's additional singular pronouns for bigender/pangender/agender persons by the 23rd century, but for ease of understanding the writers just depict those as "they" for the show.
     
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  5. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Or they milk the terminology for its ambiguity, as it really rides on the (in in-universe terms almost coincidental, in out-universe terms carefully engineered) factual plurality of Adira Dax.

    It has to be "they" for the deception to work, out-universe. For reasons similar to why the first lesbian kiss in Trek had to be between a male and a female. (That is, if we discount the ones with sadomasochistic context.)

    In-universe, I want to believe at least in Peter David's usage of "hir", which might be especially suited for those of nonbinary biological gender rather than "merely" nonbinary identity. But that runs into issues of how to pronounce "s/he"...

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  6. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'm fairly sure that the first time, chronologically, we ever meet Andorians (ENT's "The Andorian Incident"), they are speaking their native language, but we later hear English when the UT kicks in.

    Yeah, that's pretty much what the novelverse does with species that have additional genders (such as the Damiani) or who are otherwise non-binary (Hermat).

    And of course the J'naii from TNG. They have no gender, and use a 'neutral' pronoun.
     
  7. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    No, the Andorians in The Andorian Incident speak English the entire episode. Disco is the first time the Andorian language has been spoken on screen according to Memory Alpha.
     
  8. dupersuper

    dupersuper Commodore Commodore

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    Surely that's the universal translator?

    Even as a kid that was NEVER how I took her line, and I never understood why others did. It always seemed obvious to me she was complaining about him choosing his career over a relationship.
     
  9. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    And that she was a :censored:ing LUNATIC.
     
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  10. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Taking her literally is problematic.

    But, then, so is that whole episode.
     
  11. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Roddenberry did claim the line was meant to be taken literally. Though that's best left ignored.
     
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  12. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Not that time around - the heroes themselves remark how the local language curiously is English. Spock is flabbergasted: "Complete Earth parallel!" and "An amazing parallel!" are how he characterizes it. Kirk later attributes this to Hodgkins' Law of Parallel Planet Development. But meddling is the likelier explanation overall.

    Moreover, the episode rather suggests she never wanted to command a starship, and indeed never wanted to work for Starfleet at all if not with Jim Kirk. She only does it all to hurt Kirk here.

    So reading the line as anything but "Jim Kirk's world has room for nothing but ships and adventure" takes quite some doing.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  13. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ...A perhaps unsurprisingly high percentage of them being colleagues. Starfleet would do well to select for competitiveness!

    Timo Saloniemi
     
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