Events that should not have taken place in Generations
- Thread starter darkshadow0001
- Start date
It's worth thinking through what Picard actually knows at that point, just after Kirk's death.
Most importantly, IIRC (as I've not watched it for a decade)... he doesn't know that the Enterprise has lost the Stardrive section, or that the saucer has been pushed out of orbit and crash landed.
Presumably... he either finds out by clicking his combadge and getting through to the ship (and/or a shuttle) at this point, after which he knows they're coming for him, or he tries his combadge, and doesn't get a signal.
If the latter's the case he has no way of knowing what's happened to the ship (forced to leave but coming back, destroyed with no survivors...), or of calling for rescue over inter-stellar distances - until he sees the impact track and the shuttle overhead, so until then he's just in 'Final Mission'-style survival mode, looking for shelter and water on this desert-ish world...
That would just make Chekov look a putz - he's a 30 year + vet.
Edith: Are you coming, Jim?
Harlan Ellison: Cha-ching!
But seriously, I liked the burial scene. The idea of the great hero lying unremembered on some unknown planet - really gives one pause about one's accomplishments in life, and adds a kind of austere beauty to the closure. It was simple, but it was profound in its simplicity. It gave insight into the universe and the human condition, as one ponders the close of a life of fantastic exploration and achievement, to nameless death - separation from humanity and return to nature. Which, in the deepest way, may be what the Trek is all about: a universe that defies human definition.
Harlan Ellison: Cha-ching!
But seriously, I liked the burial scene. The idea of the great hero lying unremembered on some unknown planet - really gives one pause about one's accomplishments in life, and adds a kind of austere beauty to the closure. It was simple, but it was profound in its simplicity. It gave insight into the universe and the human condition, as one ponders the close of a life of fantastic exploration and achievement, to nameless death - separation from humanity and return to nature. Which, in the deepest way, may be what the Trek is all about: a universe that defies human definition.
I seem to recall that Shatner suggested changing Antonia to Carol Marcus (since she's never fully seen, it wouldn't have made much on-screen difference), but this was shot down by the producers.
That's exactly what he does do in the novelization.
... and that's why he free-climbed to the top of Wile E Coyote Peak in the middle of the afternoon.
(I don't disagree with your reasoning. I'm just making fun of Generations.)
When haven't they hesitated to make Chekov look like a putz? If they aren't inflicting physical harm on him (TMP, TWOK, TVH), they're making him look stupid (TSFS, TFF, TUC).
Antonia represented a chapter in Kirk's life that we hadn't previously been privy to; and a far more recent one from Kirk's perspective, that played into his midlife/old age crisis. Keeler was old business from his youth by then. And he'd never had the option to stay with her and live happily. Had he saved her, he likely either would have ceased to exist, or would have been pulled back by the Guardian. Had he saved her and managed to stay in 1930, he would have been around as the Nazis took over the planet thanks to the help of his girlfriend.
Plecostomus
Commodore
One conversation I would have like to been a fly on the wall for is how they broke the news to Picard about the crash.
"...man what?"
"...man what?"
This is precisely why it was meaningless to me. I would have preferred ANY of his old girlfriends/female acquaintances instead of some unknown, unseen character who ultimately never even prompted fans to want to know more about her.
Yes, Carol Marcus would have been the obvious choice. She represented a lot of possible roads not taken at several points in Kirk's life, over many decades.
Edith appealed to Kirk's sense of optimism. Carol appealed to his more integrated sense of self. It's a shame we couldn't revisit either of those relationships.
I always figured that the reason they didn't go with Edith Keeler was because Kirk knew that she was definitely dead. Having her suddenly appear in his "present day" would have clued him in to the fact that something wasn't real. And if they had done it such that it DIDN'T clue him in, it would have thrown ALL credibility* out the window.
*credibility=within the limits of suspension of disbelief required for all science fiction.
*credibility=within the limits of suspension of disbelief required for all science fiction.
In the novelization, dead folks such as David Marcus, Gary Mitchell, and Matt and Will Decker were in attendance at Kirk's various Nexus fantasy weddings. It was their presence that made Kirk's Spidey-sense tingle just enough for him to switch gears and go chop wood.
MeanJoePhaser
Admiral
I would've ended the movie with a still living Kirk in a mental asylum...longing to return to the Nexus...setting him up to the villain in a future movie. 
Absolutely.
Kirk was not the most consistently written character in history. Somedays, he's "a soldier, not a diplomat". Some times, he's a diplomat. Sometimes, he's a rogue, and sometimes, he's stricken with duty. But the one thing we absolutely knew about him was he loved his command, and he loved his ship.
If Kirk had walked out of that barn onto the bridge of the NCC-1701 (even tho' Scotty already pulled that trick on the show) it might have redeemed this sequence somewhat.
I have the audio novelization and it's abridged, but it has a few scenes that weren't in the fim. I prefer the audio novel to the movie, actually because of those scenes. The first is at the very beginning and it takes place aboard the E-A in Kirk's quarters with him, McCoy, and Spock. It occurs just after the events in ST:VI and they are saying goodbye and exchanging gifts. Kirk gives Bones the clock that is later mentioned in Jim's nexus. Another takes place after Jim is lost saving the E-B. Bones and Spock arrive early for the memorial service for Kirk where they talk for a brief moment. Lastly, in Kirk's nexus, he is at his wedding ceremony in which Carol is his bride and David is his best man.
You learn more about Soran's motivation from his brief time in the nexus where he is reunited with his wife and children; they had been killed by the Borg. While there, he is happy for the first time since their murder. His intense grief is turned into a raging obsession and he is willing to do anything to be with them again. Anything. Also, the humor that I saw as somewhat forced in the film is toned down in this version. The audio novel is read wonderfully by John DeLance and I highly recommend it to any GEN fan.
Yup. I don't care if they had already done it "Relics;" if there had been a sequence like this in Generations, it would have been infinitely better, and had more emotional impact, than anything else in that film.
The sad thing - that's... probably true, next to Data finding Spot. =)
Should not have happened:
1. Non-operational Starship, and only-ship-in-quadrant motif.
Why not something better than this? Why not pick up the character at a place besides 'I don't like retirement/not-being-Captain'?
2. Galaxy-class ship being destroyed by a BOP.
3. Chekov...Scotty? The scene needed to be redone because it so doesn't work with them standing in for Spock and McCoy. I can understand why Nimoy and Kelly didn't want to do it if the script was that bad.
4. How was Guinan a refugee from the borg if she was hanging out with Mark Twain? (I don't know if this has been explaned before...)
The El-Aurians obviously had starships long before we did, or they hopped rides with those who did. Guinan was hanging around with Mark Twain in the year 1893; the launch of the Enterprise-B was in 2293. 400 years is more than enough time for Guinan to get back home and face the Borg.
But then Kirk would have been shown as explicitly wanting back his life of a dutiful Starfleet employee - in which case Picard should have been able to lure him out with minimum fuss.
Instead, the way Nexus is shown, it seems that the illusions all are about Kirk trying to avoid his true love, and inventing all sorts of substitutes such as romances, log cabins, horses and food. Everything there is intended to lure him away from that which he really wants. Perhaps this is the nature of Nexus, or perhaps this is the nature of Kirk's subconscious, in command of his own little nook of Nexus.
Timo Saloniemi
