Episodes you love until.....
- Thread starter Grant
- Start date
"Stockholm Syndrome" would imply that Khan held her captive against her will and that never happened. It happened later to Kirk and Co. but in every previous encounter with Khan she had a chance to leave (Hell, he basically threw her out and she ASKED to stay).
She was attracted to/enamored with him from the moment she saw him on the sleeper ship.
She felt that men were more than just men back in the twentieth century apparently! 
JB
JB
Ah well, seems like I had a different opinion than you the last time I watched it.
The definition of Stockholm Syndrome does not fit the situation. McGivers was not a hostage.
No, but rewatching it I feel like she was manipulated by Khan through seducing her and then threats of violence and then using reverse psychology on her telling her to get lost so she falls under his sway. I don't what you call that. Then she's part of the takeover which fails and then has a crap choice of a court martial or freedom with Khan. I think Kirk should have sent her to a psychiatrist/psychologist whichever one is appropriate here.
I guess we could call it "pressing the advantage." He exploited her weakness, but her strength and devotion at the end was what impressed him. He never made claims of loving her, even at the end. She was merely "a superior woman." He most plikely grew to love her over the exile.
As for the court martial, that doesn't mean jail or automatic expulsion, it's a trial. She could have easily been treated lightly, sent for counseling and given a different position and posting. She was off the Enterprise, most likely, but not necessarily out of Starfleet.
As for the court martial, that doesn't mean jail or automatic expulsion, it's a trial. She could have easily been treated lightly, sent for counseling and given a different position and posting. She was off the Enterprise, most likely, but not necessarily out of Starfleet.
McGivers was definitely unbalanced with how easily she was manipulated and capitulated to murderous criminals. She'd be booted out of Starfleet at a minimum, and likely sent in for psychiatric evaluation and treatment.
M
marlboro
Guest
Plato's Stepchildren
Good episode all the way up to the very end. The villains deserved much more of a comeuppance than they received. Very unsatisfying. This is the type of story that demands harsh justice like you find in Greek myth.
Good episode all the way up to the very end. The villains deserved much more of a comeuppance than they received. Very unsatisfying. This is the type of story that demands harsh justice like you find in Greek myth.
The Platonians did deserve a harsh punishment for what they put the crew of the Enterprise through agreed, but in no way can I say this was a good episode! It doesn't fare well against The Tholian Web (the previous episode) or Wink of An Eye (the next episode) it does however sort of show how the Gods as it were having their sport with the puny mortals!
JB
JB
M
marlboro
Guest
Alternate ending:
The episode already had some dark elements, so why not end on a bleak note? End things with the Platonians being stripped of their powers, and with Alexander gaining them. Up to this point Alexander has been a very sympathetic character, but as the episode concludes let's have a few moments of foreboding letting us know that the worm may have turned and that the Platonian's Elysium may soon become Tartarus, lorded over by a diminutive Hades.
The episode already had some dark elements, so why not end on a bleak note? End things with the Platonians being stripped of their powers, and with Alexander gaining them. Up to this point Alexander has been a very sympathetic character, but as the episode concludes let's have a few moments of foreboding letting us know that the worm may have turned and that the Platonian's Elysium may soon become Tartarus, lorded over by a diminutive Hades.
Gene beliefs were all over the place during the course of his life. He was (iirc) raised Southern Baptist, and the various forms of Christianity was the religion of the shows intended audience.
I wonder what happened next with the Platonians?
JB
JB
I don't think the fly-around is too long, but what sets the tone (of "too long") is the brutally unnecessarily long sequence from Kirk talking to Sonak until he beams aboard the Office Complex. Here's this thing orbiting earth ... here's the orbiting thing from a different angle ... here's some shuttley little cargo ship things floating around ... hey there's a little bug-looking ship thing ...oh look! One of those shuttley things just flew out of the docking bay of this big orbiting thing!
The DE took 40 seconds just for that (Don't know if theatrical release was different), but it really only needed about 7-8 seconds to establish this thing is part of Star Fleet's orbiting facilities. By the time Kirk materializes, I'm already starting to nod off.
I will agree the reveal wasn't as dramatic as it could have been (and that full-frontal shot was dramatic already) by showing too much of the ship beforehand.
Pretty indisputable that he actually did come in contact with his bed!
As to OP's question, SHORE LEAVE looses me when Finnegan shows up. Having some cackling juvenile "upper classman" tormenting Kirk just seems wretched
Last edited:
Because now more than ever I need a show that offers me hope, with someone picked on for years, who does not exact vengeance. The world is shitty enough, I need a positive role model.
Last edited:
M
marlboro
Guest
So do you guys like how it ended?
That they rescued Alexander from the planet of a-holes? Yes I like that ending. And if I'm not mistaken it's the only time they removed somebody from their society permanently and let them become part of the Federation. As to whether the platonians should have been given a harsher punishment? I guess -- but so what, it's a terrible episode.
Well . . . yeah! The moment between Kirk and Alexander at the end is wonderful. As to whether or not Kirk should have had Scotty level the planet with phasers the moment they came back on board, well . . . not really in the spirit of Star Trek.
The original draft of Operation Annihilate would beg to differ
I know, I know, different circumstances.
But a case could be made that the Platonians are just as dangerous (affecting a ship in orbit with telekinesis), they are a spacefaring race and Kirk only has their pinky-promise to behave.
So maybe...
Similar threads
