Episodes you love until.....

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Grant, May 2, 2020.

  1. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The original FX show the ship being bombarded with multiple photon torpedo hits though - so maybe the Romulans had dialled down the strength of their plasma weapons in order to fire multiple shots at their target...
     
  2. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Commodore Commodore

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    I thought Changeling was a pretty good episode except for the myriad flaws that everyone has pointed out but generally the good far outweighed the bad.
    The amazing coincide that Kirk's actual name saved the day, repeated to Kirk's detriment in "Paradise Syndrome".
    Nomad just randomly destroying worlds, spacecraft etc without really examining them for 'perfection' and no-one having noticed yet. Maybe Enterprise caught it at the beginning of its silly path of destruction.
    Spocks contradictory statements about the attack.
    Kirk still getting security guards to follow Nomad around after he just kept knocking them off. No wonder Nomad thought humans were stupid and imperfect.
    The biggest problem for me was Spock melding with Nomad. I liked the scene but I just can't see Spock melding with a machine. I know it happened again in TMP. But I just don't believe it. Just as I don't think he could meld with Data or the Doctor. I mean if he can meld with machines why not meld with every Alien overlord they meet or get the toaster not to burn the bread
     
  3. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It may have been poorly explained but I think the notion that Spock could meld with Nomand and V'ger is because they were highly sophisticated living machines, sentient and sapient.

    IOW, a mind is a mind, regardless of whether its mechanical or organic in origin.
     
  4. Noname Given

    Noname Given Admiral Admiral

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    Of course there's the fact that in all honesty, ST:TMP is mostly a 40+ million dollar remake of the TOS episode "The Changeling".
     
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  5. marlboro

    marlboro Guest


    I'm telling you guys, the episode would have been a classic if Dr. Loveless had taken his revenge in the end.

    Smite their asses Apollo style:

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. RubySlipppers

    RubySlipppers Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Hahaha :guffaw: Exactly!
     
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  7. johnnybear

    johnnybear Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Coff, coff, coff The Doomsday Machine, coff, coff! :vulcan:
    JB
     
  8. Maurice

    Maurice Fact Trekker Premium Member

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    That’s barely a similarity at all.
     
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  9. ssosmcin

    ssosmcin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I would have loved it if there were.
     
  10. WarpTenLizard

    WarpTenLizard Commander Red Shirt

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    Despite considering myself a feminist, I also consider "Turnabout Intruder" one of the greatest works if unintentional comedy in all of "Star Trek," up there with "Spock's Brain," "Threshold" and "A Night in Sickbay."

    The one part I wish wasn't there was when it's stated that women can't be captains in Starfleet.
     
  11. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    And it’s all a matter of interpretation.
     
  12. BillJ

    BillJ Canon Warrior Premium Member

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    It was stated by a biased character. There was something about her that Starfleet didn't like and she took it to mean women can't be captains. People are great where self-delusion is concerned.

    All one needs to do is look at "The Cage", where a woman is second in command. Where she could be put in a position to be in command for weeks, months or years if the captain were to be killed or incapacitated.
     
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  13. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Roddenberry admitted at some point that the line was just sexist, that it was intended to mean women were not eligible to be starship captains. But the line doesn't make sense that way. Lester seems to be bitching about some impediment to romantic togetherness— but if Kirk and Lester both became starship captains, they'd never see each other. So what the hell is she talking about?

    The writing is disjointed, as if it's been hastily cut down from a longer conversation, leaving a series of non-sequiturs:

    JANICE: The year we were together at Starfleet is the only time in my life I was alive.
    KIRK: I never stopped you from going on with your space work.
    JANICE: Your world of starship captains doesn't admit women. It isn't fair.
    KIRK: No, it isn't. And you punished and tortured me because of it.
    JANICE: I loved you. We could've roamed among the stars.

    As best I can read it, Kirk was a top cadet on the command track, while Lester was heading for an undistinguished career on the lower decks. So she quit or flunked back then, now referencing it with bitter hyperbole to shield her ego. "I didn't fail, I was unfairly treated for being a woman."
     
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  14. Poltargyst

    Poltargyst Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Mmmmm, I don't know. As of Pike's time women were only just getting bridge jobs. While women were no doubt making their way up the ranks, it's entirely possible that as of Turnabout Intruder, there were not yet any female starship captains. And while there might not have been any policy against a female starship captain, it's possible there was a glass ceiling were men just so happened to keep getting picked over women for a while, Number One notwithstanding.
     
  15. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    This comes down to whether one chooses to interpret it as sexist or as sloppy writing but still meaning it’s Lester Starfleet didn’t want and not women in general. I prefer the latter and to give TOS the benefit of the doubt.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2020
  16. Poltargyst

    Poltargyst Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Not sure why you're saying giving TOS the benefit of the doubt. IF they intended the line to mean that indeed women are being passed over for starship captain jobs, that doesn't mean the producers of the show are saying that's the way it should be. They could be pointing it out as a problem to be solved.
     
  17. Poltargyst

    Poltargyst Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    And while I'm at it:

    JANICE: Your world of starship captains doesn't admit women. It isn't fair.
    KIRK: No, it isn't. And you punished and tortured me because of it.

    Kirk agrees with her!
     
  18. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    But maybe he was humoring his bat-ass crazy ex.
     
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  19. Poltargyst

    Poltargyst Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    We're not given anything to suggest that.

    My use of Occam's Razor, the simplest explanation I can see, is that the line means what it says. Starfleet isn't hiring women as starship captains.
     
  20. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    So you choose to accept it as sexist. Fine. Moving on because this argument is ancient and has never been resolved.