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Episode VIII production photos (possible spoilers)

You don't have to be massively imaginative to put the pieces together.

I was just pointing out that there are no references to any past war in TPM, not arguing how pieces should or should not be put together.

For example, as it turned out, the EU, having overlooked (or having been unaware of) a quote by Lucas which spoke of the Rule of Two having been in effect for thousands (plural) of years, jumped to the conclusion that the Rule of Two had only been in existence since the Sith had been believed extinct. But that created a plot hole not caused by TPM itself.

Also, we do not know precisely when the Sith ruled the galaxy. It could easily have been prior to the thousand generations spoken of by Obi-Wan in ANH.
 
Lowlifes in a bar on Coruscant in a time when the Jedi were active is a long way from a orphaned scavenger living in the arse end of nowhere more than half a century after they were all effectively wiped off the galactic map.

Technically the first time we get a sense of the Jedi being considered myth is in E4 when Han disavows their existence as hocus pocus.

Barfly's or not, Anakin must have thought they'd understand the reference otherwise he wouldn't have said it.

Think whatever you like but IMO, unless the Emperor wiped millions of minds of their existence, not enough time passed between E2 and E4 for knowledge of the Jedi to have passed into myth.
 
Coruscant lowlifes and barflies would have the benefit of the doubt because they are on the planet where most of the Jedi live. In the Jedi Temple.

Tatooine or Jakku are on much farther away from Galactic Civilization. Tatooine was outside the Republic in Hutt Space. Jakku is on the outer edge of explored space just before the Unknown Regions.
 
The problem with the Jedi being considered a "myth" is that the Emperor mentions being attacked by them when he addressed the Senate to officially declare the Republic's transition to the Empire. Something like that was likely recorded for posterity and is therefore definitive proof in the Empire's official records the Jedi did indeed exist. That there could be anyone who thought the Jedi to be a myth seems as silly as someone believing the Confederacy to be a myth despite hearing the Gettysburg Address.

Authoritarian governments are very good at suppressing facts and revising history, and making everybody believe the new version.

Kor
 
For example, as it turned out, the EU, having overlooked (or having been unaware of) a quote by Lucas which spoke of the Rule of Two having been in effect for thousands (plural) of years, jumped to the conclusion that the Rule of Two had only been in existence since the Sith had been believed extinct. But that created a plot hole not caused by TPM itself.

I did wonder about that as the recent Rebels's finale seemed to indicate that the Sith temple was built with the Rule of Two in mind, despite it being several thousand years old.
I suppose that could be somewhat open to interpretation as it could simply be a safeguard so that an apprentice can't betray and murder their master to gain the station's power as it takes both of them to use the thing.
I don't recall if there was any direct reference to how long Bane had been dead in the final season 6 episodes, so there's no way to tell from that.

If nothing else it would account for how Yoda could know of the Rule of Two if it existed *before* the fall of the last Sith Empire.

Also, we do not know precisely when the Sith ruled the galaxy. It could easily have been prior to the thousand generations spoken of by Obi-Wan in ANH.

Not for an absolute fact, no. But consider the confluence of events: the Republic being (re) founded, a full scale war comes to an end, a dark age of the galaxy ends, a galactic army is disbanded and the Sith are presumed wiped out forever. The Republic part alone is enough to conclude that something else was in charge of the galaxy in this dark age. It's hardly a massive leap given the small mountain of circumstantial evidence that said institution was the a Sith Empire.

As a small aside, in 'Escape from Kadavo' Sidious refers to Sith Empires; plural. Now that could mean the Sith ruled the galaxy on more than one occasion, had smaller earlier empires prior to conquering the galaxy or that at some point, multiple Sith Empires existed in competition.
That last one certainly seems credible in a pre-Rule of Two era. They were said to be prone to in-fighting so I can see various Empires fracturing as various Lords made bids for personal power, switching sides and stabbing each other in the back. Pick one or all of the above I suppose.

Technically the first time we get a sense of the Jedi being considered myth is in E4 when Han disavows their existence as hocus pocus.
Again, it wasn't the existence of the Jedi he was doubting, only the veracity of their beliefs and abilities. Hence "simple tricks and nonsense."

Barfly's or not, Anakin must have thought they'd understand the reference otherwise he wouldn't have said it.
I never said they wouldn't. My point was that them knowing what a Jedi is when they see one cut someone's hand off isn't reasonably comparable to Rey and her situation. They did know for an absolute fact Jedi were real (what they thought of them is another matter) but Rey didn't know it for an absolute fact because she couldn't. Apples and oranges.

Think whatever you like but IMO, unless the Emperor wiped millions of minds of their existence, not enough time passed between E2 and E4 for knowledge of the Jedi to have passed into myth.

OK, this strawman crap is getting old.
At no point have I said that the *whole galaxy* magically forgot they even existed, just that's it's reasonable that after half a century, their existence may fall into doubt *at the fringes of civilization*.
Remember that the Jedi weren't just killed, everything about them was suddenly taboo, owning Jedi artefacts became very illegal and speaking of them openly was probably a good way to get a visit from the space gestapo. In a climate like that, it shouldn't be surprising that the flow of accurate information on the subject became highly disrupted. Plus, from the outside they were pretty mysterious even before that state of affairs.

Note that several people would incorrectly refer to lightsabers as "laser swords" and even presumably well educated people would address them as "Master Jedi" regardless of their actual rank, simply because they don't actually know much of anything about internal Jedi matters.
 
I seem to recall some old Dark Horse comics that had something similar to the Rule of Two. It was that there would be two Dark Lords of the Sith at any one time but there could be plenty of other Sith under them. The title "Dark Lord of the Sith" was special and important.
 
I don't recall if there was any direct reference to how long Bane had been dead in the final season 6 episodes

There wasn't.

Not for an absolute fact, no. But consider the confluence of events: the Republic being (re) founded, a full scale war comes to an end, a dark age of the galaxy ends, a galactic army is disbanded and the Sith are presumed wiped out forever. The Republic part alone is enough to conclude that something else was in charge of the galaxy in this dark age.

But even the Republic was not in charge of the whole galaxy during the prequel era, as we can see from the films. By the same token, it's not a given that the Sith were in charge of the galaxy in the time period in question. In other words, though the old EU is no longer canon, its version of events still largely fits with the limited amount of data points that we have.

Ithekro said:
I seem to recall some old Dark Horse comics that had something similar to the Rule of Two. It was that there would be two Dark Lords of the Sith at any one time but there could be plenty of other Sith under them.

Coincidentally this happens to be the case in the game Knights of the Old Republic: there are only two Darths, but hordes of Sith. First there are Darth Revan and Darth Malak, but after Revan is captured by the Jedi and brainwashed, there is a Darth Bandon.
 
I seem to recall some old Dark Horse comics that had something similar to the Rule of Two. It was that there would be two Dark Lords of the Sith at any one time but there could be plenty of other Sith under them. The title "Dark Lord of the Sith" was special and important.

I vaguely recall something to that effect in the latter 'Tales of the Jedi' books,though I don't think it was massively emphasized. But then the EU in general was all over the place and not at all consistent on what a Sith even was or even what it meant to be a Jedi. At least not until the prequels and Lucas started laying down more concrete lore. I remember that at one point Luke & Leia's then unknown mother was suggested to be a "Jedi Princess", which as a concept is anathema to what we now know of Jedi. Similarly, that horrible 'Children of the Jedi' book had (as the title suggests) Jedi with spouses and children.

But even the Republic was not in charge of the whole galaxy during the prequel era, as we can see from the films. By the same token, it's not a given that the Sith were in charge of the galaxy in the time period in question. In other words, though the old EU is no longer canon, its version of events still largely fits with the limited amount of data points that we have.

Now you're just splitting hairs. The point isn't the "Sith will rule the galaxy" bit, as in how much of the galaxy is under what political system, the point is the "once more" bit. The direct implication is that however you define the state of affairs, according to Sidious they've held this degree of power before. That's not even in question. So what scenario are you arguing for exactly? That the Sith never ruled? That the old Republic never fell? Both of these events have been explicitly established in current canon.

Coincidentally this happens to be the case in the game Knights of the Old Republic: there are only two Darths, but hordes of Sith. First there are Darth Revan and Darth Malak, but after Revan is captured by the Jedi and brainwashed, there is a Darth Bandon.

Not much of a co-incidence as KoTOR was written some years *after* TPM came out and the concept of a master and an apprentice (both Sith and Jedi) was already out there and retroactively re-enforced by the scenes in tESB & RotJ where Vader and Sidious respectively try to recruit Luke and do away with the other.

But getting back to KoTOR, the very next game introduced the idea of a Sith Triumvirate, so it was hardly a concept that was set in stone or dictated from on high. Bioware were allowed the put their own spin on things just as Obsidian later were (though in less than ideal circumstances.)

Wow, we are so far of topic. Perhaps we ought to start a thread on ancient history in the new canon? ;)
 
So it looks like quite a bit of the movie must take place on Ach-To then.
 
So it looks like quite a bit of the movie must take place on Ach-To then.
There's absolutely no way to gauge that from a few filming locations. For all we know there could be exactly three scenes on that planet before they take off again and two of those scenes could end up being cut in post.
 
One would assume that it would be the location of Rey's main plot contribution for at least a third of the movie. Maybe half, before she is needed elsewhere.

Assuming they do partial training in this movie, rather than have her trained the entire movie, and only come back to the galaxy in Episode IX.
 
There's absolutely no way to gauge that from a few filming locations. For all we know there could be exactly three scenes on that planet before they take off again and two of those scenes could end up being cut in post.
I guess. I just figured if it was going to be for just a couple scenes they would have just done a little bit of stuff in one location, but they seem to be spending quite a bit of time and moving around to a bunch of different places.
 
I guess. I just figured if it was going to be for just a couple scenes they would have just done a little bit of stuff in one location, but they seem to be spending quite a bit of time and moving around to a bunch of different places.
Such is the nature of film-making.
For ANH, they went out to Death Valley (not an easy place to deal with) just to get a handful of shots of R2 and the Jawas and I think some of the Sandpeople/Bantha footage.
In Jedi they shot that sandstorm scene that was apparently a real pain for all involved and they never even used it. Same for the location they used for Toche Station that was cut.
Empire had a whole extra sequence Wampas invading the base that was entirely excised, which meant a substantial portion of the footage they shot on the Echo Base set never made it to screen.
For TPM they shot quite a lot in Italy, but in the final movie, they're in those locations for about five minutes total at the start and maybe three at the end.

Also keep in mind that some of this shooting could be second or even third unit work.
 
Maybe Kylo Ren goes to the light side at the end of the movie. Rey goes to the dark.

Ben Solo now has to save Rey for Episode X
 
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