Episode IX Speculation and Discussion

[BillJ]

With something like Star Wars.. if the heroes won at the end of your last movie, tread carefully before resetting the game board so that in truth, they actually lost. Tread carefully on giving us new interpretations of old characters, especially ones that benefitted (and inspired people) for being simple archetypes.. I'm not saying you can't change them, but handle changes delicately.

That's the difference, I for one am enjoying the new game board and the new interpretations of old characters. Tragedy in their various lives (Luke, Leia, Han) sent them on separate paths.

I will agree there is a lot to explore there, but not in a two-hour movie, even a trilogy. The box office has become a center of spectacle, thanks in large part to A New Hope. It seems we've come full circle.

 

[BillJ]

If you put TFA in your player right after ANH it's like.. doesn't make sense. it's just like nothing has changed.

This was edited in after my reply.

I think this is an interesting experiment I might try at some point. To see how much of the table was really reset.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Tragedy in their various lives (Luke, Leia, Han) sent them on separate paths.

I respect what you are saying.. but why can't iconic heroes, that have been iconic.. have to be tragic.. like SO tragic. Like first iumpressions matter and when Luke is drinking titty milk he becomes an asshole to a lot of viewers, and now you have to work hard to make him "not an asshole".

Personally, while Luke should not be a perfect character, he could kind of be a measuring rod for future characters.. could they measure up to him a s a Jedi and as a person?

 

[fireproof78]

respect what you are saying.. but why can't iconic heroes, that have been iconic.. have to be tragic.. like SO tragic.

That's mythology.

 

[BillJ]

I respect what you are saying.. but why can't iconic heroes, that have been iconic.. have to be tragic.. like SO tragic. Like first iumpressions matter and when Luke is drinking titty milk he becomes an asshole to a lot of viewers, and now you have to work hard to make him "not an asshole".

I don't know? Life is invariably tragedy on some level. We all will have high highs, and crushing lows. Filmmakers always bring something of themselves into the stories they are telling.

Personally, while Luke should not be a perfect character, he could kind of be a measuring rod for future characters.. could they measure up to him a s a Jedi and as a person?

Luke Skywalker was the catalyst for delivering a crushing if temporary blow to a galactic empire. I think him being a recluse would actually make his legend grow in the intervening years. Which was why they were so desperate to find him in The Force Awakens. Like many of us, he had demons that pushed him away.

If the name of the upcoming movie implies what I think it implies, Luke Skywalker will be a galactic legend for millennium to come.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Life is invariably tragedy on some level.

Star Wars is escapism. If I wanted to watch a movie where the major players are assholes, I'd watch the Departed

 

[BillJ]

Star Wars is escapism. If I wanted to watch a movie where the major players are assholes, I'd watch the Departed

Even in escapism, "rah, rah" all the time wears out its welcome pretty quickly.

 

[fireproof78]

Star Wars is escapism. If I wanted to watch a movie where the major players are assholes, I'd watch the Departed

But, they're not assholes. They are people struggling with depression, and anxiety and failure. In other words more human.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Yes but they became assholes. And I don't need all those issues to be so prominent in my space adventure that is trying to make me feel like a kid. What's wrong with heros.. with fun.

I mean Superman had the same thing.. they didn't think a "shucks" boy scout like Reeves would work, but they overcorrected and made Superman a depressing figure more than a hopeful one

I mean even if Luke COULD turn like this, if you look at it as a modern story., I ask why one would write that... why is this entertaining?. Sure gandalf could become a clean shaven guy that makes snow angels every day, but no one would write that even if you could explain it..

 

[BillJ]

Yes but they became assholes.

You're welcome to your interpretation, though I just don't see it.

For the record: Luke was an asshole from the beginning. I think he's more likable in the sequel trilogy.

 

[fireproof78]

Yes but they became assholes. And I don't need all those issues to be so prominent in my space adventure that is trying to make me feel like a kid. What's wrong with heros.. with fun.

That was gone with Empire.

 

[Campe]

Even in escapism, "rah, rah" all the time wears out its welcome pretty quickly.

And a dramatic movie without conflict is pretty boring. Having the conflict come from within? Well, you’ve just won me over!

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

I'm just stating how I feel. I remember being blown away by the dogfights in the original.. The Falcon diving down to escape from star destroyers etc. The dogfighting in these films.. eh.. just.. eh. The best setpiece is the first flight of the Falcon.. aside from the whether or not she could actualy fly it like that.. the action itself was fun to watch. But Rogue One is basically the closest I get to the kind of space battles I enjoyed

 

[Campe]

I'm just stating how I feel.

I get it. I respect your feelings even if I don’t share them. Can’t I state how I feel?

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

sure.. of course
Realistic or not (how ironic considering the genre and setting) to me it's a bummer to see the characters end up like this. just a bummer.. a break of tone.
I remember in the beginning of Plinkett's Episode 3 review he says something that I won't forget.
"there isn't a violent rape on a pinball machine in the first ten minutes of Ghostbusters"
Yeah he was talking about tone. In Star wars the characters had depth... but only so much depth. I think the tonal shifts of the force awakens and tlj were so different from the originals. particularly in how the tone shifted and how the characters were handled

I'm looking forward to seeing Picard after twenty years, yet I also know that (like with Star Wars) I'm probably not going to get what I like most about the character.. that he could just lecture someone in a ready room about what's right.. instead he is a dour old man who talks slow but they have him going on some crazy adventure.. when to me what made Picard where the much simpler scenes in the ready room!

 

[fireproof78]

I think the tonal shifts of the force awakens and tlj were so different from the originals. particularly in how the tone shifted and how the characters were handled

This is the nature of storytelling. When you have characters moving in to another stage of life, especially one of middle age, there is a whole new challenge to their development. Life challenges them in new ways, and people respond in different ways.

So, the tonal shift is not out of step with the originals. It is the natural extension of a story being told about characters becoming older.

The Star Wars movies started simple, but left behind the simple adventure storyform starting in ESB, and turning more progressively grayer in tone once you moved in to the PT and the Clone Wars. Again, Lucas' whole point of telling the PT was to show how a good guy became the most evil person in the galaxy in Darth Vader. That is hardly a positive or optimistic outlook.

Expanding the depth of Star Wars has been the job of ever film series since the OT. There is simply no way that any sequel film series would be like the tone of the OT, and to expect it to be so is unreasonable, at best, and setting up for disappointment.

 

[DigificWriter]

There is simply no way that any sequel film series would be like the tone of the OT, and to expect it to be so is unreasonable, at best, and setting up for disappointment.

QFT.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

This is the nature of storytelling. When you have characters moving in to another stage of life, especially one of middle age, there is a whole new challenge to their development. Life challenges them in new ways, and people respond in different ways.

So, the tonal shift is not out of step with the originals. It is the natural extension of a story being told about characters becoming older.

The Star Wars movies started simple, but left behind the simple adventure storyform starting in ESB, and turning more progressively grayer in tone once you moved in to the PT and the Clone Wars. Again, Lucas' whole point of telling the PT was to show how a good guy became the most evil person in the galaxy in Darth Vader. That is hardly a positive or optimistic outlook.

Expanding the depth of Star Wars has been the job of ever film series since the OT. There is simply no way that any sequel film series would be like the tone of the OT, and to expect it to be so is unreasonable, at best, and setting up for disappointment.

if you were right then half the SW fans would not hate the film

 

[DigificWriter]

if you were right then half the SW fans would not hate the film

As has been repeatedly stated in the past, The Last Jedi is not hated by "half the SW fans".

Continually repeating falsehoods will not suddenly make them true.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

if it split the fanbase (which can be demonstrated) that means half the fans hated it