Spoilers Episode 11 onwards spoilers - How did that work again?

[ITDUDE]

Wait this is it? Why didn't they just put Voq's brain in Tylers body?
I was very confused by all of this. It seems a lot more confusing than it needed to be.

Yes. Plot twist for the sake of plot twist.
If Klingons have the tech to transform memories between species, they definitely could have just transplanted Voq memories into Tyler, considering they actually had Tyler as a prisoner.
They didn't have to mangle up Voq in any way, shape or form (double entendre ) The ONLY way it may makes sense is that real Tyler is still out there somewhere and he will come back with "Voq" or "Tyler" or "Insert Name here" memories?
I am pretty sure the writers have at this point painted themselves in the corner and I have no idea how anything they are doing makes any kind of sense

 

[eschaton]

Yes. Plot twist for the sake of plot twist.
If Klingons have the tech to transform memories between species, they definitely could have just transplanted Voq memories into Tyler, considering they actually had Tyler as a prisoner.
They didn't have to mangle up Voq in any way, shape or form (double entendre ) The ONLY way it may makes sense is that real Tyler is still out there somewhere and he will come back with "Voq" or "Tyler" or "Insert Name here" memories?
I am pretty sure the writers have at this point painted themselves in the corner and I have no idea how anything they are doing makes any kind of sense

Culber said something right before he was murdered about how if there was another personality imprinted on top of Ash, they would have detected it. It slipped past them because "Ash" was written on top of Voq, rather than the other way around.

 

[Refuge]

All that to further a stupid redundant plan.

 

[Refuge]

Actually it is a bit funny. I can just picture the brain trust that is L'Rell and Voq...

We need to gain an advantage... a bargaining chip. That Discovery Starship is popping up everywhere. Hmmm... they must have a top secret propulsion system. I wonder if it's a spore drive?!!! lol. Don't be silly, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. Anyway why don't we grind up your bones, chop of your spare penis, and stick some dirty human's facade over you! Might need to do some brain overlay as well Damn that's a good idea! Count me in! THEN somehow we'll get the Starship Discovery's captain here and he'll naturally take you to his ship and give you a security job. THEN I will somehow get on board too. THEN er.. you'll remember who you are and we'll get the intel and life will be sweet!

What could go wrong?

 

[Mad Jack Wolfe]

I get the premise behind dermal regeneration, but this would have required far more than just hiding the zipper on Voq's new Tyler suit. They would have to wire up the nervous system such that a Klingon brain could operate a fully-functional (in the Data sense of the term) human body. Additionally, I can't imagine how Frankensteining human and Klingon bits together would not experience tissue rejection without some form of ongoing intervention.

The writers went overboard making things complicated, rather than sticking to something easy like putting a brain back into a head.

 

[Vger23]

It really doesn't make any sense.

Ditto. I'm completely confused as to what Tyler/Voq is. If Tyler's personality is in there, which it seems it is, what exactly was the overall benefit over putting Voq's in his body? Or was that what they did? Then what was all the surgery? L'Rell said that Voq 'gave up everything' but if he's just been surgically altered to look like Tyler, how has he 'given up everything'? I thought they had somehow combined both into one body, but it seems others didn't interpret it that way.

To sum up, I'm confused.

I'm loving the show, but I'm with y'all on this one. This was a concept that needed to bake in the oven a few more hours. Pretty mushy and undercooked as it is right now.

 

[urbandefault]

Klingon guy in a human suit, with a few aftermarket parts for funsies. Got it.

Christ on a cracker, that's daft.

Klingons are not known for subtlety.

 

[Hythlodeus]

I've see dafter things on Star Trek

 

[Longinus]

That may be the closest to what was intended. I'm still not sure how Tyler's fake persons ended up in there too, or why if they can transplant personalities like that they didn't just save themselves the effort and put Voq's in Tyler's real body.

Well, if we despite all the nonsense want to assume some realism, and there is not some sort of magical 'soul transfer', then they presumably wanted to use Voq's brain for the basis. Otherwise they would have killed Voq. So in addition to the surgery, they somehow brainwashed Voq to think he is Tyler, but it is still really Voq. Think it like this, if you're having a dream, where you think you're someone else, it is still really you having that experience (this is basically what's happened here.) But is someone else is having a dream that they're you, then it is not really you.

Granted, to an external observer the end result would have been the same had they done it other way around, but to L'Rel it probably mattered that it was 'really' Voq. Furthermore, this seems to be super crude process, so the Tyler persona may be actually a really crappy copy. No one on the crew knew the real Tyler, so they would not have noticed it the Voq-Tyler would have behaved differently or would have been missing a shit ton of personal memories.

 

[Mudd]

Klingon guy in a human suit, with a few aftermarket parts for funsies. Got it.

Christ on a cracker, that's daft.

Yes. Yes it is.

 

[cultcross]

Well, if we despite all the nonsense want to assume some realism, and there is not some sort of magical 'soul transfer',

Well Star Trek is no stranger to that idea, body swapping and personality transfer is something we've seen before (Facets, for example, plants personalities over those of the DS9 crew by mystical whatnow, plus the actual body swapping of Turnabout Intruder, the disembodied consciousness of Spock being imprinted into McCoy, and I'm convinced I'm forgetting some other tomfoolery over the years) so I guess it seems logical that a person's essence, 'soul' if you will can be put in another body or vessel in this universe. Then we see L'Rell make one quick adjustment with her hand of glory glove and Voq's, what, erased?
Plus, not that this is a great advert for a plotline, but it's an established sci-fi trope. In fact one I had originally thought they deployed themselves in the close of this week's episode (I now stand corrected on that front!). I think that may be partly what's causing me problems here, along with the fact that Tyler appears physically a perfect match. It just seems such a conveluted way of achieving the end in a sci-fi universe. Just wave your hands and put Voq's personality in Tyler's body, we all accept it, and we move on.

 

[Unimatrix Q]

I suppose that they somehow cloned or replicated Tyler's organs to put them into Voq. The question is: Is the original Tyler still alive and will we meet him, when Discovery is back in the Prime Universe?

 

[Tuskin38]

Culber said something right before he was murdered about how if there was another personality imprinted on top of Ash, they would have detected it. It slipped past them because "Ash" was written on top of Voq, rather than the other way around.

This right here.

 

[Mad Jack Wolfe]

I suppose that they somehow cloned or replicated Tyler's organs to put them into Voq. The question is: Is the original Tyler still alive and will we meet him, when Discovery is back in the Prime Universe?

Tyler's skeleton was probably hanging in L'Rell's quarters, à la Lorca's Gorn.

 

[XCV330]

I suppose that they somehow cloned or replicated Tyler's organs to put them into Voq. The question is: Is the original Tyler still alive and will we meet him, when Discovery is back in the Prime Universe?

I'm guessing dead. I can't see whatever he is remaining on the ship now. Even if he's aquitted of murder, if Stamets remains he'd be around his partner's killer every day.

 

[Longinus]

Well Star Trek is no stranger to that idea, body swapping and personality transfer is something we've seen before (Facets, for example, plants personalities over those of the DS9 crew by mystical whatnow, plus the actual body swapping of Turnabout Intruder, the disembodied consciousness of Spock being imprinted into McCoy, and I'm convinced I'm forgetting some other tomfoolery over the years) so I guess it seems logical that a person's essence, 'soul' if you will can be put in another body or vessel in this universe. Then we see L'Rell make one quick adjustment with her hand of glory glove and Voq's, what, erased?
Plus, not that this is a great advert for a plotline, but it's an established sci-fi trope. In fact one I had originally thought they deployed themselves in the close of this week's episode (I now stand corrected on that front!). I think that may be partly what's causing me problems here, along with the fact that Tyler appears physically a perfect match. It just seems such a conveluted way of achieving the end in a sci-fi universe. Just wave your hands and put Voq's personality in Tyler's body, we all accept it, and we move on.

Turnabout Intruder was some super alien bullshit and pretty terrible episode all together. Katra thing and 'Facets' were probably just echoes of the original personality via memory transfer. McCoy did not really become Spock.

Frankly, as much I dislike this storyline and as implausible I find the process, I still prefer it over some sort of 'soul swap' which to me seems way more implausible and even more past what Klingons should be capable of, not to mention the weird metaphysical implications.

 

[jaime]

That may be the closest to what was intended. I'm still not sure how Tyler's fake persons ended up in there too, or why if they can transplant personalities like that they didn't just save themselves the effort and put Voq's in Tyler's real body.

Culver said you can’t hide a personality under an existing ing one without it showing, but you can theoretically do it the other way round. (I guess it’s like oil and acrylic paint) so you need Voq to be the original body. Maybe Klingon rendundant organs and whatnot help with the approach. So you rebuild Voq to be more or less human, then overlay the Tyler personality over him, putting him dormant in the process. Then when the time comes you erase the surface personality and hope you have enough Klingon model filler handy. Maybe Voqs old skin is the fridge, if we didn’t already see most of him on the floor in the room where LRell and Cornwell were hanging out.

 

[Mudd]

That was basically some arbitrary bullshit invented in the hope of drawing attention away from the conceit that a man who'd been held prisoner for seven months and violently abused had been returned to duty without ever before undergoing an independent medical examination capable of detecting major surgical alterations to every part of his body.

Never mind doing a "23 And Me" on him.

Who knows, maybe medical staff at Starfleet started making up excuses not to examine Ash after the first three or four were murdered in the examination room by persons unknown.

 

[Jadeb]

That was basically some arbitrary bullshit invented in the hope of drawing attention away from the conceit that a man who'd been held prisoner for seven months and violently abused had been returned to duty without ever before undergoing an independent medical examination capable of detecting major surgical alterations to every part of his body.

Never mind doing a "23 And Me" on him.

In a universe where you are routinely taken apart and reassembled molecule by molecule. He might as well be wearing a rubber mask, Mission: Impossible style.

 

[eschaton]

I could better buy the idea that the Klingons could pull this off if the medical tools used to perform surgery on Voq didn't look like something out of the Victorian era.

I mean, honestly, I understand that the Klingons are too macho for painkillers. But they're not going to be undertaking a procedure like that without precise electronic devices.