Yeah, but they could have done all of that even with the augment virus, since most of that was having Ash Tyler's memories implanted on top of Voq's.
I agree the ghoulish surgery was completely unneeded.
Spoilers Episode 11 onwards spoilers - How did that work again?
- Thread starter GilmourD
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Yeah, but they could have done all of that even with the augment virus, since most of that was having Ash Tyler's memories implanted on top of Voq's.
I agree the ghoulish surgery was completely unneeded.
I think they made the mistake of trying to explain the unexplainable in depth. You don't try and explain the Genesis Device or Red Matter in detail, because they're completely implausible MacGuffins designed to advance the plot. You just say that it works, maybe throw a little BS treknobabble at it (without getting carried away with it like Voyager) and show it working.
We know there are numerous previously established techniques to alter people's appearance and bioscans via surgerical/medical alteration, genetic modification, or transporter combination, and also ways to transfer or steal someone's consciousness through devices like the mind sifter, so just say it was something like that and call it a day. Saying you filed down bones and ripped out redundant organs and basically beat the shit out of them until they looked human is rather ridiculous, and doesn't pass the smell test that he would fool even basic medical exams.
I think this is one of those situations were a silly throwaway treknobbable explanation would have worked better than the overly detailed and strangely conventional yet still completely impossible method they used.
None of this detracts from my enjoyment of the episode, mind you. It's just a minor issue.
We know there are numerous previously established techniques to alter people's appearance and bioscans via surgerical/medical alteration, genetic modification, or transporter combination, and also ways to transfer or steal someone's consciousness through devices like the mind sifter, so just say it was something like that and call it a day. Saying you filed down bones and ripped out redundant organs and basically beat the shit out of them until they looked human is rather ridiculous, and doesn't pass the smell test that he would fool even basic medical exams.
I think this is one of those situations were a silly throwaway treknobbable explanation would have worked better than the overly detailed and strangely conventional yet still completely impossible method they used.
None of this detracts from my enjoyment of the episode, mind you. It's just a minor issue.
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They could have done it any number of ways - there's no reason for a callback to something from an old show, when you can present the process in the context of current speculative medicine and other touchstones.
The most plausible would have involved some kind of overlay or attempted replacement of Ash's personality with Voq's. The idea of cutting one of them up physically is just another example of the sniggering "we so grisly" mindset of the show.
The real question here is:
Was mu-Tyler surgically altered to become mu-Voq?
Was mu-Tyler surgically altered to become mu-Voq?
I'm not sure what you mean. Culber's descriptions of what was done anatomically to "Tyler's" body - at least if quoted accurately online - make it pretty clear that the process was making something else resemble Tyler, not the other way around.
The moment in all this craziness that rang the most true was when one of the nurses (or whoever it was) said something along the lines of Well unless you can tell me how the hell they stuffed a Klingon inside a human being, there's nothing we can do to help him. It's a believable reaction to seeing the impossible; they should have left it that.
Are they going to end up with this amalgam where Voq's personality is gone and it's this ersatz Tyler who survives and joins the crew, having feels about his weird identity? Like he'd sort of be the Data/Doctor/B4 of the show? Or maybe he'll just sacrifice himself to save Mike? It has potential, but I somehow think it's not going to happen.
I think she killed Voq; when L’Rell started the operation he was speaking Klingon but as she finished he started speaking English and then we got the death howl. Of course for all we know she’s switched Voq back into sleeper mode in the hopes the crew will start trusting him again and he can complete his mission.
C
Captain pl1ngpl0ng
Guest
I was literaly applauding when Tyler got ejected out in space by Burnham, i really thought that bromance with awkward kissing was over...
Did anyone else notice when Tyler/Voq was in medical, the scanner reading his vitals listing his organs had numbers next to the organ names? (Ex. Heart 1/2 Stomach 1/2/3/4) Was that supposed to be in reference to multiple Klingon organs?
Voq's Brain > Spock's Brain (episode)
Voq's Brain > Spock's Brain (episode)
Ditto. I'm completely confused as to what Tyler/Voq is. If Tyler's personality is in there, which it seems it is, what exactly was the overall benefit over putting Voq's in his body? Or was that what they did? Then what was all the surgery? L'Rell said that Voq 'gave up everything' but if he's just been surgically altered to look like Tyler, how has he 'given up everything'? I thought they had somehow combined both into one body, but it seems others didn't interpret it that way.
To sum up, I'm confused.
I took it that the procedure was exactly that: Voq's bones crushed and reset, spine shortened, Klingon organs replaced with human, and Voq literally wrapped in Tyler's skin. Dermal regeneration, a mind-sift/shift, and voila!
Klingon/Human hybrid, the hard way!
That may be the closest to what was intended. I'm still not sure how Tyler's fake persons ended up in there too, or why if they can transplant personalities like that they didn't just save themselves the effort and put Voq's in Tyler's real body.I took it that the procedure was exactly that: Voq's bones crushed and reset, spine shortened, Klingon organs replaced with human, and Voq literally wrapped in Tyler's skin. Dermal regeneration, a mind-sift/shift, and voila!
Klingon/Human hybrid, the hard way!
They could have gone with the Klingon version of Katra and stuck that in tyler's body. They already went through the process of introducing the concept of Katra in an earlier episode. Come to think of it this whole plot line would have worked better with a Romulan war background.
for someone who wants to Remain Klingon, becoming human is giving up everything
They filed down his bones and skull ridges, surgically removed his redundant Klingon organs and altered the other ones to look more human, and vivisected him to remove or alter any external or internal features that made him appear Klingon to a cursory medical scan. They would even have to get rid of things that give away Klingons like their distinctive smell (Earthy, peaty), whatever triggers Tribbles, and if they happen to have pink blood that time and not the red blood they have every other time, that too.
Then they deposited Ash Tyler's consciousness (and possibly even part of his brain) into Voq's brain. All because he wouldn't listen when Arne Darvin woke up and warned him about The Sunken Place.
Klingon guy in a human suit, with a few aftermarket parts for funsies. Got it.I took it that the procedure was exactly that: Voq's bones crushed and reset, spine shortened, Klingon organs replaced with human, and Voq literally wrapped in Tyler's skin. Dermal regeneration, a mind-sift/shift, and voila!
Klingon/Human hybrid, the hard way!
Christ on a cracker, that's daft.
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