Entertainment Weekly Cover Story (7/28)

[kirk55555]

I've only read her Halo work, and thoroughly enjoyed it. Need to pick up a Star Wars work. And suggestions?

Her Star wars Republic Commando series (which starts with the book Hard Contact) are my favorite Star wars stories, period (including every other book and comic I've read and all the movies). Technically a spinoff of the Republic Commando game, but the specific clones from that are just side characters in the book series and you don't have to know anything about the game (I didn't). Its very much a love it or hate it series. To me, it humanized the clones in a way the prequels and even TCW cartoon mostly failed to do and many of my favorite SW characters come from this series.

As long as someone doesn't consider the Jedi above reproach (the jedi aren't all that revered throughout most of the series, which isn't the norm for books featuring them I've found but I like the take on it here), and is fine with a warrior culture thing (the mandalorians are a big part of the book series, and I love them even though this version got removed from canon before Disney bought it by the lame TCW cartoon version of mandalorians). The book has many characters but it does a good job of handling all of them. Its set up at the start following a group of clone commandos, who are more skilled and do more complicated jobs then the average clone soldier. traviss does a good job with the combat/soldier elements of the book, just like she does with all the other stuff in my opinion.

Definitely worth a look, although I don't think my recommendation carries much weight

 

[fireproof78]

Her Star wars Republic Commando series (which starts with the book Hard Contact) are my favorite Star wars stories, period (including every other book and comic I've read and all the movies). Technically a spinoff of the Republic Commando game, but the specific clones from that are just side characters in the book series and you don't have to know anything about the game (I didn't). Its very much a love it or hate it series. To me, it humanized the clones in a way the prequels and even TCW cartoon mostly failed to do and many of my favorite SW characters come from this series.

As long as someone doesn't consider the Jedi above reproach (the jedi aren't all that revered throughout most of the series, which isn't the norm for books featuring them I've found but I like the take on it here), and is fine with a warrior culture thing (the mandalorians are a big part of the book series, and I love them even though this version got removed from canon before Disney bought it by the lame TCW cartoon version of mandalorians). The book has many characters but it does a good job of handling all of them. Its set up at the start following a group of clone commandos, who are more skilled and do more complicated jobs then the average clone soldier. traviss does a good job with the combat/soldier elements of the book, just like she does with all the other stuff in my opinion.

Definitely worth a look, although I don't think my recommendation carries much weight

I will look in to those. Though, the Jedi being above reproach is something I have never found the Jedi treated with much reverence in the novels, at least the ones that I have read.

I've never really been a fan of the Mandolorians, or Fett, so I'm hoping this series will give me a different perspective.

Thank you for the suggestions

 

[{ Emilia }]

then fuck [...] Beyer

Keep the conversation civil please.

 

[Ithekro]

Don't trigger the poor fellow. The Star Wars book reads just got him civil again down there after months of thread rages over things that didn't need raging.

What else of use is in the article?

 

[{ Emilia }]

Don't trigger the poor fellow. The Star Wars book reads just got him civil again down there after months of thread rages over things that didn't need raging.

And let's not make this thread about him. He's entitled to his opinion.

 

[BillJ]

I think Beyer is a talented writer. But I think there's a difference in writing books aimed at a very small, intensely interested in canon/continuity crowd and writing something for a mainstream audience.

 

[JD]

Wow, ok, this woman has officially taken Kurtzman/Orci's title asthe worst writer to work on an official Trek thing. I like Q a lot, he's one of my favorite Star Trek characters and I liked all of his television appearances (along with some of the really good Q books by people like Peter David and Greg Cox). If Beyer actually did all the things you described, she's easily my most hated Trek writer and I now know to never even consider glancing at a Voyager novel.

At this rate, someone could tell me she made my favorite Voyager cast member/top 3 favorite Trek character (the EMH) and into a serial and I wouldn't be shocked. But, this is Discovery. Getting the worst people possible for the job is becoming a trend.



There's like three, but it doesn't matter because at this point, after what I've learned, I'd rather stick a Voyager novel in a shredder then read it.

Seriously, you need to stop listening, he's twisting things to make them sound a lot worse then they are. He's literally the only person I've come across here who has a negative opinion of Beyer's books, and he seems to be in the vast minority over all
For reference here are the ratings of Kirsten Beyer's Voyager books here, on Goodreads and on Amazon. These are in alphabetical order, not release order. All rating out of 5. The TrekBBS and Goodreads scores come from this site, which records the scores in those of those two sites for each Trek book with a review thread on the boards.

A Pocket Full of Lies:
TrekBBS: 4.66 w/71 ratings
Goodreads: 4.27 w/354 ratings
Amazon:4.5 w/81 ratings


Acts of Contrition:
TrekBBS: 4.49 w/94 ratings
Goodreads: 4.09 w/518 ratings
Amazon: 4.3 w/119 ratings

Atonement:
TrekBBS: 4.56 w/71 ratings
Goodreads: 4.15 w/439 ratings
Amazon: 4.3 w/85 ratings

Children of the Storm:
TrekBBS: 4.33 w/132 ratings
Goodreads: 4.02 w/862 ratings
Amazon: 4.2 w/146 ratings

Protectors:
TrekBBS: 4.32 w/88 ratings
Goodreads: 4.05 w/638 ratings
Amazon: 4.5 w/125 ratings

The Eternal Tide:
TrekBBS: 4.19 w/176 ratings
Goodreads: 4.13 w/830 ratings
Amazon: 4.2 w/137 ratings

Unworthy:
TrekBBS: 4.19 w/108 ratings
Goodreads: 4.08 w/ 1,007 ratings
Amazon: 4.3 w/71 ratings

Full Circle:
TrekBBS: not on site
Goodreads: 4.07 with 1,161 ratings
Amazon: 4.2 w/146 ratings

So now I have real proof that the negative opinions of her work are the minority.

 

[KirkusOveractus]

I think some opinion of Beyer is being formed from the exchange in EW, where she says that saying "For God's sake!" goes against Gene's Vision of a 23rd Century where there is no religion.

I'd really love to know where that came from, as I grew up watching TOS and TAS, and I sure didn't see that apparent at all. Quite the opposite. You had a lot of exclamatory dialogue along those lines, as well as religious overtones in several episodes.

 

[JD]

To me it's a ridiculously minor thing to be getting upset about and to turn against Beyer over, especially when she's already proven herself to be one of the best Trek writers out there right now, over, and over, and over, and over........
Personally I'd put her (and David Mack, Christopher L. Bennett, and Dayton Ward) right up there with people like DC Fontana, Micheal Piller, Ira Stephen Behr, and Ronald D. Moore.
Ok, I'll admit they've said stuff like that before, but those were the other series by the other group of writers, and it looks like this group is going back to the no religion thing from TNG. Even if it does contradict other stories, I never expected this to be 100% consistent with every single word of Trek ever written, so once again, I'm not bothered by it.

 

[Mr Awe]

Every time I think I hate Discovery as much as possible, it finds a way for me to hate it more. Hiring someone who is now my most hated Star Trek writer in existence.

Wow, just wow. Where to begin? You hate a show that hasn't even aired yet? Is a TV show something worthy of hate anyway? Such strong emotions over something so trivial and it hasn't even aired yet.

 

[cultcross]

Personally I'd put her (and David Mack, Christopher L. Bennett, and Dayton Ward) right up there with people like DC Fontana, Micheal Piller, Ira Stephen Behr, and Ronald D. Moore.

wow. Ok. You like your Trek books.

 

[Noname Given]

To me it's a ridiculously minor thing to be getting upset about and to turn against Beyer over, especially when she's already proven herself to be one of the best Trek writers out there right now, over, and over, and over, and over........
Personally I'd put her (and David Mack, Christopher L. Bennett, and Dayton Ward) right up there with people like DC Fontana, Micheal Piller, Ira Stephen Behr, and Ronald D. Moore.
Ok, I'll admit they've said stuff like that before, but those were the other series by the other group of writers, and it looks like this group is going back to the no religion thing from TNG. Even if it does contradict other stories, I never expected this to be 100% consistent with every single word of Trek ever written, so once again, I'm not bothered by it.

My problem with it is that it may indicate we'll be getting a '24th century character' attitude in a 23rd century setting <-- AZnd YES that would bother me to a point where I'd probably skip the show, It also goes against what the writing and production staff in general have been saying in that they all are fans of/have watched, and understand Star Trek (TOS) IF it's what actually hap;pened on the set <-- so yeah - much like many others don't like the possible 'darker/hot war' setting (which to me is a minor issue to be honest); that bit of direction indicates to me a person who may have indeed 'watched TOS' - but DIDN'T really 'get it' or the era it represents in Star Trek - and that's not a minor issue for me.

 

[kirk55555]

Seriously, you need to stop listening, he's twisting things to make them sound a lot worse then they are. He's literally the only person I've come across here who has a negative opinion of Beyer's books, and he seems to be in the vast minority over all
For reference here are the ratings of Kirsten Beyer's Voyager books here, on Goodreads and on Amazon. These are in alphabetical order, not release order. All rating out of 5. The TrekBBS and Goodreads scores come from this site, which records the scores in those of those two sites for each Trek book with a review thread on the boards.

A Pocket Full of Lies:
TrekBBS: 4.66 w/71 ratings
Goodreads: 4.27 w/354 ratings
Amazon:4.5 w/81 ratings


Acts of Contrition:
TrekBBS: 4.49 w/94 ratings
Goodreads: 4.09 w/518 ratings
Amazon: 4.3 w/119 ratings

Atonement:
TrekBBS: 4.56 w/71 ratings
Goodreads: 4.15 w/439 ratings
Amazon: 4.3 w/85 ratings

Children of the Storm:
TrekBBS: 4.33 w/132 ratings
Goodreads: 4.02 w/862 ratings
Amazon: 4.2 w/146 ratings

Protectors:
TrekBBS: 4.32 w/88 ratings
Goodreads: 4.05 w/638 ratings
Amazon: 4.5 w/125 ratings

The Eternal Tide:
TrekBBS: 4.19 w/176 ratings
Goodreads: 4.13 w/830 ratings
Amazon: 4.2 w/137 ratings

Unworthy:
TrekBBS: 4.19 w/108 ratings
Goodreads: 4.08 w/ 1,007 ratings
Amazon: 4.3 w/71 ratings

Full Circle:
TrekBBS: not on site
Goodreads: 4.07 with 1,161 ratings
Amazon: 4.2 w/146 ratings

So now I have real proof that the negative opinions of her work are the minority.

I'm frequently in the minority opinion. As a completely unrelated example, I think Christopher Nolan failed completely to make even a single good batman movie, which is not a majority opinion but one I have. More related to Star Trek, I loved Star Trek beyond and consider it the only legitimately good reboot Trek movie. So, I don't really care what the majority think.

I've gotten too worked up over Beyer recently so I want to kind of just let the subject rest, but I will restate that what her book(s?) did to Q is unforgivable to me and I literally couldn't be paid enough to do anything with one of her books except throw it in a shredder. I'll probably still have to hear her name because of discovery and discuss her work related to that, but my opinion on her pre-Discovery work is written in stone and I'd prefer to just go to head canoning it into oblivion and pretend that Q isn't totally ruined in the novelverse and that a new Q book might be possible someday from a writer whose work I don't extremely dislike. There is nothing more to discuss about her novels from my perspective, basically.

 

[Fateor]

To me it's a ridiculously minor thing to be getting upset about and to turn against Beyer over, especially when she's already proven herself to be one of the best Trek writers out there right now, over, and over, and over, and over........

Not really.

In fact out of the currently active crop of Star Trek writers I would say she's probably the worst at characterization and story.

 

[JD]

Wow. I guess we'll just have to very, very strongly disagree.

wow. Ok. You like your Trek books.

My problem with it is that it may indicate we'll be getting a '24th century character' attitude in a 23rd century setting <-- AZnd YES that would bother me to a point where I'd probably skip the show, It also goes against what the writing and production staff in general have been saying in that they all are fans of/have watched, and understand Star Trek (TOS) IF it's what actually hap;pened on the set <-- so yeah - much like many others don't like the possible 'darker/hot war' setting (which to me is a minor issue to be honest); that bit of direction indicates to me a person who may have indeed 'watched TOS' - but DIDN'T really 'get it' or the era it represents in Star Trek - and that's not a minor issue for me.

Honestly, I haven't really been expecting this to at all close to TOS when it comes to this kind of stuff.
I think that actually might be part of the reason I haven't been bothered by any of what's been coming out about the show. I've been coming into this expecting it to be totally different from the past series, so for me the surprises have actually come when I see something that actual does feel like the old shows.

I'm frequently in the minority opinion. As a completely unrelated example, I think Christopher Nolan failed completely to make even a single good batman movie, which is not a majority opinion but one I have. More related to Star Trek, I loved Star Trek beyond and consider it the only legitimately good reboot Trek movie. So, I don't really care what the majority think.

I've gotten too worked up over Beyer recently so I want to kind of just let the subject rest, but I will restate that what her book(s?) did to Q is unforgivable to me and I literally couldn't be paid enough to do anything with one of her books except throw it in a shredder. I'll probably still have to hear her name because of discovery and discuss her work related to that, but my opinion on her pre-Discovery work is written in stone and I'd prefer to just go to head canoning it into oblivion and pretend that Q isn't totally ruined in the novelverse and that a new Q book might be possible someday from a writer whose work I don't extremely dislike. There is nothing more to discuss about her novels from my perspective, basically.

Ok, why are you taking his word about this over the other people who disagree with him?
Do you have some reason to trust him over other people on the boards?

wow. Ok. You like your Trek books.

Yes, very much so. Some of my favorite Trek stories are in the books.

 

[kirk55555]

Ok, why are you taking his word about this over the other people who disagree with him?
Do you have some reason to trust him over other people on the boards?

Because no one disputes what he says happens actually happened? There is no situation where killing q, making Q hate humanity, etc is done well (not to mention the bits I've gleaned about what she did to Janeway). No one in the history of the human race could make that work, in my opinion. I'm not basing my opinion on the other poster's opinion. My opinion is based on things that I can confirm actually happen. I didn't spend too much time looking it up because I sure as hell am not reading a whole Memory Beta article about the worst thing to happen to Trek novels, but I know that stuff happened and no one trying to defend Beyer's work has disputed that. I don't particularly care about the technical quality of her writing when the stories themselves are so atrocious.

Its not about agreeing with someone's subjective opinions about a book's quality. Its about finding the events of the story offensive as both a Trekkie in general and a huge fan of Q in particular, and no one is disputing that the events happened.

 

[CorporalClegg]

"Offensive," huh?

 

[JD]

If you actually had the full context of what was happening you could see that it actually does work, and has a real purpose behind it. Just reading about stuff online really doesn't give you the full experience of how things got to the point that they did.
And all of the stuff that happened with the Qs was meant to be a bad thing, I'm pretty sure I remember reading in an interview that Kirsten decided to do that stuff when she brought Janeway back because she wanted her return to need a sacrifice, and she wanted there to be a there to be a negative effect to go along with it.
And just because someone might have made a creative choice you might not like doesn't excuse any of the obnoxious shit you've been posting. You can say you don't like it without lowering yourself to personal insults, all that does is make you look bad.

 

[Tuskin38]

Because no one disputes what he says happens actually happened? There is no situation where killing q, making Q hate humanity, etc is done well (not to mention the bits I've gleaned about what she did to Janeway). No one in the history of the human race could make that work, in my opinion. I'm not basing my opinion on the other poster's opinion. My opinion is based on things that I can confirm actually happen. I didn't spend too much time looking it up because I sure as hell am not reading a whole Memory Beta article about the worst thing to happen to Trek novels, but I know that stuff happened and no one trying to defend Beyer's work has disputed that. I don't particularly care about the technical quality of her writing when the stories themselves are so atrocious.

Its not about agreeing with someone's subjective opinions about a book's quality. Its about finding the events of the story offensive as both a Trekkie in general and a huge fan of Q in particular, and no one is disputing that the events happened.

It is all about context, you don't have the context to these events.

 

[Jesse1066]

Because no one disputes what he says happens actually happened? There is no situation where killing q, making Q hate humanity, etc is done well (not to mention the bits I've gleaned about what she did to Janeway). No one in the history of the human race could make that work, in my opinion. I'm not basing my opinion on the other poster's opinion. My opinion is based on things that I can confirm actually happen. I didn't spend too much time looking it up because I sure as hell am not reading a whole Memory Beta article about the worst thing to happen to Trek novels, but I know that stuff happened and no one trying to defend Beyer's work has disputed that. I don't particularly care about the technical quality of her writing when the stories themselves are so atrocious.

Its not about agreeing with someone's subjective opinions about a book's quality. Its about finding the events of the story offensive as both a Trekkie in general and a huge fan of Q in particular, and no one is disputing that the events happened.

An idea that sounds terrible on the face of it can be done very well if it's handled skillfully in a way that makes sense. This has happened many times in Star Trek (I would suggest that DS9, a Star Trek series without a starship, is a good example). I haven't read the books in question, and you haven't either. I suggest you actually give her work a try before you criticize her so harshly. It's possible you'll find it's not that bad. Or you'll hate it, but at least you'll be an informed critic.