Enterprise's Mirror Universe

[Admiral_Young]

In A Mirror Darkly was simply put an event when it aired. I remember being pumped for weeks prior and all my friends gathered at my best friends place because he had the largest TV and we ordered pizza. From the moment they showed the altered First Contact scenes I knew this was going to be something special. Part two was better than part one, seeing the TOS Defiant was awesome. Don't forget too that David Mack's Age of Sorrows is being released in novel format and is an expanded story of his original anthology tale. I think it's coming out on Dec 29, a day after my birthday.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I'm not a huge fan of the episodes themselves, I didn't enjoy them as much as the DS9 MU eps. However the opening sequence is absolutely mind blowing, a great Trek moment. I love rewatching that.

 

[Unicron]

I'd also recommend DC Comics' Mirror Universe Saga to fans of the MU concept. It's currently being reprinted in the "Best of Alternate Universes" TPB.

 

[Voyagerian]

....It makes one wonder if there comes a change between ENT and TOS in the way Vulcans are regarded among 'Terrans'...unless Spock's partial humanity somehow gave him in an, that others of his race would not have. That may be more the case, since there was such animus for almost a century before Archer MU's heyday.These humans don't change their spots easily, as Spock had in mind when Jim was trying to sway him towards reasonable thinking. But maybe they began to see them as tools to be used, or Vulcan for the most part gave in and 'embraced' their fate as a conquered race.

Dunno, remember when that Spock made the comments of his allies avegning him to Sulu....Sulu's face looked like, "Oh....shit," when Spock mentioned Vulcans, meaning that Vulcans do indeed have a pretty good footing in the Empire.


Also, if the Defiant was in fact kept in the hands of the Empire, the 2009 Enterprise, I think would have been what the 23rd century in the mirror universe would have been like, shipwise for the imperial starfleet.

Yeah, that's right, M Spock really took him down a peg! I do wonder still if that in Arche's time at least in the MU, the Vulcans are second-class citizens...looks that way acc. to Mirror Jon. When M T'Pol saw what it all COULD have been like, she became inspired to take action...as to how many of her kindred would have felt so, who knows?....To your other point, I was just thinking about the MU version of Abramsverse yesterday...wow, that'd be some Imperial tool..but then, you'd have to consider that perhaps, as seemed apparent to me anyway, the events of the latter day PU were exclusive to creating a single branchoff reality...of course, , isn't quantum theory all about probabilities expanding out?If our universe could theoretically-fictionally have countless variants..why not the Abramsverse...guess that's another thread!....

 

[The Castellan]

....It makes one wonder if there comes a change between ENT and TOS in the way Vulcans are regarded among 'Terrans'...unless Spock's partial humanity somehow gave him in an, that others of his race would not have. That may be more the case, since there was such animus for almost a century before Archer MU's heyday.These humans don't change their spots easily, as Spock had in mind when Jim was trying to sway him towards reasonable thinking. But maybe they began to see them as tools to be used, or Vulcan for the most part gave in and 'embraced' their fate as a conquered race.

Dunno, remember when that Spock made the comments of his allies avegning him to Sulu....Sulu's face looked like, "Oh....shit," when Spock mentioned Vulcans, meaning that Vulcans do indeed have a pretty good footing in the Empire.


Also, if the Defiant was in fact kept in the hands of the Empire, the 2009 Enterprise, I think would have been what the 23rd century in the mirror universe would have been like, shipwise for the imperial starfleet.

Yeah, that's right, M Spock really took him down a peg! I do wonder still if that in Arche's time at least in the MU, the Vulcans are second-class citizens...looks that way acc. to Mirror Jon. When M T'Pol saw what it all COULD have been like, she became inspired to take action...as to how many of her kindred would have felt so, who knows?....To your other point, I was just thinking about the MU version of Abramsverse yesterday...wow, that'd be some Imperial tool..but then, you'd have to consider that perhaps, as seemed apparent to me anyway, the events of the latter day PU were exclusive to creating a single branchoff reality...of course, , isn't quantum theory all about probabilities expanding out?If our universe could theoretically-fictionally have countless variants..why not the Abramsverse...guess that's another thread!....

I do think that the Vulcans, who they themselves were once a war-like race, needed to combine that with their logic in order to free themselves. And, seeing how much a pain in the ass, to say the least, the Vulcans were, I think the Emperor made some changes...perhaps the Empire is more of a humanoid empire, rather than a human empire.

As for that second bit. I was thinking that IF the Empire were able to hold onto the Defiant, or at least long enough to reverse-engineer it, I could see the TOS era of the mirror universe being more akin to the 2009 universe in the forms of technology, though the events of the 2009 Trek film not haven taken place in the mirror universe. Maybe the JJ Constitution class, or at least something pretty darned close, could exist in the events of Mirrior Mirror. Maybe they were given to the really high ranking guys, seconded only to the emperor himself. Maybe TOS Constitutions in Mirror Mirror were now relagated to support roles like the Mirandas were in the 24th century? I'm sure the Emperor's own personal ship would be one hell of a nasty monster to witness.

 

[Unicron]

The MUS suggested that, to a degree, the mirror Vulcans were similar in many respects to their counterparts in the normal universe, and this is consistent with ENT's portrayal of them. Whether or not they are intended to be a "conquered" race is not clear, but Mirror Spock betrayed his parents to the Empire and after the crossover developed a degree of jealousy for our Spock, because he had the freedom to be the Vulcan Mirror Spock was not able to be.

 

[star]

....It makes one wonder if there comes a change between ENT and TOS in the way Vulcans are regarded among 'Terrans'...unless Spock's partial humanity somehow gave him in an, that others of his race would not have. That may be more the case, since there was such animus for almost a century before Archer MU's heyday.These humans don't change their spots easily, as Spock had in mind when Jim was trying to sway him towards reasonable thinking. But maybe they began to see them as tools to be used, or Vulcan for the most part gave in and 'embraced' their fate as a conquered race.

Dunno, remember when that Spock made the comments of his allies avegning him to Sulu....Sulu's face looked like, "Oh....shit," when Spock mentioned Vulcans, meaning that Vulcans do indeed have a pretty good footing in the Empire.

Exactly. This was the one disappointment for me with the Enterprise's MU episodes. It had actually been years since I had seen "Mirror, Mirror" (hello, Spock with a goatee... er, where was I?)... and I watched IaMD1 and T'Pol a slave? I was saying, "Wha??". I looked up and rewatched "Mirror, Mirror" thinking I had missed something.

HOWEVER... I do think that they did lay the groundwork to bridge the difference with T'Pol seeing the the database on the Defiant. Perhaps the Vulcans kick booty and that's what makes them so scary by TOS time.

And as for the ship, if you remember in "Mirror, Mirror" the Enterprise had the ability to destroy a planet and it appeared it was used often. It would make sense that they took the tech from the Defiant and expanded on it.

Oh and I'll add a plug for the novel, Dark Mirror. Fantastic stuff! But then I love virtually all MU stuff. LOL (Haven't read the ENT book yet -- I know, I know... What's wrong with me??)

 

[The Castellan]

....It makes one wonder if there comes a change between ENT and TOS in the way Vulcans are regarded among 'Terrans'...unless Spock's partial humanity somehow gave him in an, that others of his race would not have. That may be more the case, since there was such animus for almost a century before Archer MU's heyday.These humans don't change their spots easily, as Spock had in mind when Jim was trying to sway him towards reasonable thinking. But maybe they began to see them as tools to be used, or Vulcan for the most part gave in and 'embraced' their fate as a conquered race.

Dunno, remember when that Spock made the comments of his allies avegning him to Sulu....Sulu's face looked like, "Oh....shit," when Spock mentioned Vulcans, meaning that Vulcans do indeed have a pretty good footing in the Empire.

Exactly. This was the one disappointment for me with the Enterprise's MU episodes. It had actually been years since I had seen "Mirror, Mirror" (hello, Spock with a goatee... er, where was I?)... and I watched IaMD1 and T'Pol a slave? I was saying, "Wha??". I looked up and rewatched "Mirror, Mirror" thinking I had missed something.

HOWEVER... I do think that they did lay the groundwork to bridge the difference with T'Pol seeing the the database on the Defiant. Perhaps the Vulcans kick booty and that's what makes them so scary by TOS time.

And as for the ship, if you remember in "Mirror, Mirror" the Enterprise had the ability to destroy a planet and it appeared it was used often. It would make sense that they took the tech from the Defiant and expanded on it.

Oh and I'll add a plug for the novel, Dark Mirror. Fantastic stuff! But then I love virtually all MU stuff. LOL (Haven't read the ENT book yet -- I know, I know... What's wrong with me??)

If DM is the TNG book, it was ok, just did not like the idea that the ISS Enterprise D's mere presence in the Prime Universe would have threatend its existence. And that wimp, Barcley, as a body guard just does not fit right....mirrior universe or not.

 

[star]

If DM is the TNG book, it was ok, just did not like the idea that the ISS Enterprise D's mere presence in the Prime Universe would have threatend its existence. And that wimp, Barcley, as a body guard just does not fit right....mirrior universe or not.

On the first point I might agree with you. However, as to Barclay... well, in a kill or be killed universe he definitely wouldn't have survived as the stuttering coward that he is in the RU. (Okay, he's not a full-on coward, but the boy lacks some backbone). The point of the MU is that our characters are the opposite in many ways to what they are in the RU. So to me, it's fun that Barclay is not just surviving on the ship... but kicking butt too!

But then, I'm all about the bad guys doing bad things in space.

 

[Truth_Seeker]

I wish they expanded it more and Enterprise hadn't gotten cancelled!

Empress Sato was awesome

I loved the morror universe episodes, especially the opening credits.

Hoshi and T'Pol definetely looked great in their "uniforms".

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I love that line, I think it's in the DVD commentary, that the MU ENT episodes 'put the Ho in Hoshi'.

 

[The Castellan]

I wish they expanded it more and Enterprise hadn't gotten cancelled!

Empress Sato was awesome

I loved the morror universe episodes, especially the opening credits.

Hoshi and T'Pol definetely looked great in their "uniforms".

Surprised I heard no one complaining about their uniforms, yet.

 

[Voyagerian]

If DM is the TNG book, it was ok, just did not like the idea that the ISS Enterprise D's mere presence in the Prime Universe would have threatend its existence. And that wimp, Barcley, as a body guard just does not fit right....mirrior universe or not.

On the first point I might agree with you. However, as to Barclay... well, in a kill or be killed universe he definitely wouldn't have survived as the stuttering coward that he is in the RU. (Okay, he's not a full-on coward, but the boy lacks some backbone). The point of the MU is that our characters are the opposite in many ways to what they are in the RU. So to me, it's fun that Barclay is not just surviving on the ship... but kicking butt too!

But then, I'm all about the bad guys doing bad things in space.

I liked the rappor Jean-Luc developed with M Barclay during his stay on the Mirror D. It's been a long time since I last picked the book up, but I recall that seeing these posts. Man, Troi was a holy terror over in her MU counterpart. Everyone feared her. I recall our Deanna's discomfort with how everyone reacted to what she was there. Back to the Ent MU, I was just thinking the other day, and wondering how the Sphere Builders and the Delphic Expanse might fit into that reality, assuming events played out up to then as in the regular universe...how proactive would the Empire be,if learning of them.. I'd think they'd do all they could, once intel reached them,to learn of the true nature of why this area existed,given oneday their reach would touch the section of space, and take preemptive steps to prepare to combat these Sphere Builders...and take their technology to develop into a potential weapon, once they found out about it. If our Trip and T'Pol could foul their plans, so could the other versions...

 

[Truth_Seeker]

The Tholian ships from "Enterprise" were also pretty cool.

http://media.moddb.com/cache/images/mods/1/8/7240/thumb_620x2000/67928.jpg

They remind me a little of my personal all time favourite Sci-Fi ship - the Vorlon transport from "Babylon 5".



http://www.bakers-place.co.uk/b5wallpaper/640dock13.jpg

Sorry I've just realised that I've posted in this thread instead of "Most Beautiful Ships In Trek".



[Hotlinking isn't allowed here, Truth_Seeker. Please refer to the FAQ rules regarding images for further info. --HR]

 

[Mirror_Barclay]

If DM is the TNG book, it was ok, just did not like the idea that the ISS Enterprise D's mere presence in the Prime Universe would have threatend its existence. And that wimp, Barcley, as a body guard just does not fit right....mirrior universe or not.

I didn't care for the exchange of matter threatening the existence of the universe, or at least habitability over several galaxies or whatever it was. But nothing's perfect, I think it was a good novel regardless.

I like seeing different facets of characters; it's a shame when someone is the same in Prime, Alliance-verse and Empire-verse (and a real shame that they let Empire-verse die off entirely, instead of developing both).

 

[fishingforships]

Do you think there was a definable moment in their history where the time line differs from the real universe to make the mirror universe. We know with all the temporal damage that was done could not all have been repaired in all the timelines. Think about the episode right after they destroyed the Xindi weapon and Daniels throws them back to 1944. If Hitler had in fact taken over America the majority of the people would end up being more violent, and a third world war is definitely possible with Russia and China still at large, so the government breakdown needed for Zefram Cochrane to get his hands on a ICBM to turn into a warp ship would still happen, then the looting and pillaging of the Vulcan ship and eventually the famed Terran Empire comes into existence. Were all the people that we knew from the R.U. inherently bad in the mirror universe or were they just acting on the conditioning of their lives up to that point, that they would have to all be hard nosed bad asses just to survive let alone excel in that twisted world.... Something to ponder on.