"Enterprise" too advanced for 22nd Century
- Thread starter CaptainSpirk
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You may not like Enterprise, that is your choice and I respect it, but that doesn't make it non-canon, you're not in charge of that.
You also have the right to post in this section of the forum, but why would you if you don't like the show?
Let us see...there have been at least a dozen sailing ships named Enterprise (from multiple nations) A small motor launch in US service during the Great War. Two, and soon, probably three aircraft carriers with the name. At least two survey vessel in British service, as well as cruiser from between the world wars. At least one ironclad. A space shuttle. A clipper ship as well as a few steamboats. As well as a space plane.
There were a LOT of ships named Enterprise in the last 300 years, there are bound to be a lot more in the next 300 years. I keep thinking there should be as ship named Enterprise between the NX-01 and the NCC-1701, just because of how long that is to not have a ship with that name. It doesn't even have to be a Starfleet ships, but one that exists serving someone in some capacity.
There were a LOT of ships named Enterprise in the last 300 years, there are bound to be a lot more in the next 300 years. I keep thinking there should be as ship named Enterprise between the NX-01 and the NCC-1701, just because of how long that is to not have a ship with that name. It doesn't even have to be a Starfleet ships, but one that exists serving someone in some capacity.
Undoubtedly there have been many civilian "Enterprise"s, but I think the idea is that they must have been an official Navy vessel, not just a little outboard or spaceplane someone slaps the name Enterprise on.
But I wonder if all the real world Enterprises even existed in the Star Trek universe. It seems clear that, based on the image, the space shuttle Enterprise saw more service than just atmospheric test flights in the Star Trek Universe.
Perhaps she received her planned refit and got engines in the 1980s, or while Decker was refitting the NCC-1701, the space shuttle received an impulse engine refit for her planned 300th anniversary coming in 2276 (which I believe was in one of the Lost years novels).
The list of navy vessels (which would not include the space shuttle), there are ten British warships and to be eight American warships, plus some French ships. There are also a smaller number of other ships with that name that would have been either USS or HMS Enterprise that were not "warships".
Five panels is nowhere near enough. Considering that the first nuclear carrier, USS Enterprise, was not on the wall either, and only one of the sailing ships, that might not even be the most famous of the sailing ships either, there is plenty of reason to have the NX-01 missing. Especially if CVN-65 isn't on the wall, but a prototype space shuttle is.
The list of navy vessels (which would not include the space shuttle), there are ten British warships and to be eight American warships, plus some French ships. There are also a smaller number of other ships with that name that would have been either USS or HMS Enterprise that were not "warships".
Five panels is nowhere near enough. Considering that the first nuclear carrier, USS Enterprise, was not on the wall either, and only one of the sailing ships, that might not even be the most famous of the sailing ships either, there is plenty of reason to have the NX-01 missing. Especially if CVN-65 isn't on the wall, but a prototype space shuttle is.
Theoretically, with future viewing technology, we might be able to spot the fact that the shuttle docked to the space station on Sisko's desk is in fact labeled ENTERPRISE. We might then assume that Space Station Fred (not the ISS, but an earlier proposal) got built, and that the Enterprise made flights to that station.
Or then we may assume that many if not all of the desktop models are fiction even in-universe (perhaps something Jake Sisko liked to cobble together), and that there never existed a spacecraft consisting of a sphere joined by a thin neck to a cylinder and two nacelles made out of Space Transportation System components...
There's also the fact that the ENT opening credits feature the bow of a spaceworthy orbiter (real RCS nozzles and all) with the name ENTERPRISE CGI'd on it.
Unless they are display screens with changing imagery. If so, then we need not assume that the five images in evidence would be the result of careful selection, reflecting the importance of the ships shown. Rather, there'd be a random set of five at any given time, perhaps including irrelevant ships and omitting important ones.
Picard's wall features a carrier looking like our CVN-65 plus the shuttle, but omits any carrier looking like our CV-6 and any carrier looking like the "real" nuclear carrier Enterprise, the one we saw in ST4:TVH - the one with the registry CVN-65 but without the characteristic island structure complete with SCANFAR radar antennas.
For all we know, USN was chock full of ships named Enterprise in the "real" universe (that is, the Star Trek one), making it all the more difficult to portray a representative sample of 'em in any such display. Or then CVN-65 underwent a refit, either to or from the SCANFAR island configuration, and Picard's wall in fact portrays the "real" CVN-65, too. Picard's ship has no registry visible, but if we squint real hard at the images on Archer's ready room wall, we can just barely see the digits 65 on the fwd flight deck of the SCANFAR-configured carrier there, supporting the refit idea.
Then again, we have no good reason to think that Picard's wall would feature the theme of ships named Enterprise. After all, there are two demonstrably false starships there - the ones supposed to represent E-B and E-C, ships later established to look distinctly different. Perhaps all the ships on that wall were named, say, Stargazer instead? (Hey, if USN can have a Shangri La, obviously Stargazer is an option as well - and the name would subsequently become "commonplace".) Or perhaps the Galaxy?
All in all, we know with good certainty that Kirk's ship was the very first Enterprise in UFP Starfleet service. We have no proof that Archer's ship was the very first by that name in UE Starfleet, or the very last.
Timo Saloniemi
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The art department loved sneaking in bits of obscure continuity. I doubt the guys who wrote or directed the episodes really cared what the space art on the wall was, or that the ECS Horizon had "the book" on a background bookshelf, or that one or two Starfleet insignia mentioned UESPA.
Remember also, the XCV-330 Enterprise art was something they modified from a failed Gene Roddenberry post-Trek TV series pitch and snuck in there.
I have not read all 12 pages in this thread so I apologize if this is repetitive.
I do not have a problem with the look of tech in Enterprise. I think the ship looked the part, both inside and outside. Where I think they dropped the ball is in terms of storytelling. They did not realize that the more primitive technology needs to be reflected on in the storytelling. For example, the ablative armor acted just like shields do. "Captain we are down to 80%! 60%, 20%. Captain ablative armor has failed!" You can't just do that.
I do not have a problem with the look of tech in Enterprise. I think the ship looked the part, both inside and outside. Where I think they dropped the ball is in terms of storytelling. They did not realize that the more primitive technology needs to be reflected on in the storytelling. For example, the ablative armor acted just like shields do. "Captain we are down to 80%! 60%, 20%. Captain ablative armor has failed!" You can't just do that.
Now you're being deliberately obtuse.
For example: Only the original WWII-era aircraft carrier (CV-6?) is shown in the rec room scene - the second carrier, CVN-65, isn't shown. Yet we know the CVN-65 exists, as it is prominently featured in ST IV.
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...To nitpick (see above), we don't see CVN-65 anywhere on Picard's model. And we do see CVN-65 signage decorate the ship in ST4:TVH, a ship that is distinctly different from the one Picard has in his ready room (no SCANFAR island because the ship in the movie is in reality USS Ranger, CV-61).
In canon, then, CVN-65 in Trek reality had two distinct silhouettes: that familiar from Archer's ready room (and our reality) and that from ST4:TVH. And Picard's ready room had a carrier that was an apparent sister ship to CVN-65 at the very least.
And no, there's no point in pretending that the TMP collection of five pictures could in any way be "inclusive" or even "exclusively significant". It's just a random take of five from the big pool of ships named Enterprise in the Trek universe. Or even a mere random take of four, because one of those ships is the very ship inside which the pic resides!
Timo Saloniemi
In canon, then, CVN-65 in Trek reality had two distinct silhouettes: that familiar from Archer's ready room (and our reality) and that from ST4:TVH. And Picard's ready room had a carrier that was an apparent sister ship to CVN-65 at the very least.
And no, there's no point in pretending that the TMP collection of five pictures could in any way be "inclusive" or even "exclusively significant". It's just a random take of five from the big pool of ships named Enterprise in the Trek universe. Or even a mere random take of four, because one of those ships is the very ship inside which the pic resides!
Timo Saloniemi
Oddly enough...
They didn't have a mute function on their PADDs... you know, so that you don't disturb others every time you touch the screen (beep, beep, beep, click, beep beep).
Or a set of wired or Bluetooth earbuds in case you want to watch a video, listen to music?
They didn't have a mute function on their PADDs... you know, so that you don't disturb others every time you touch the screen (beep, beep, beep, click, beep beep).
Or a set of wired or Bluetooth earbuds in case you want to watch a video, listen to music?
Many phones today are like that - there's always that one app the operating sounds for which you just plain can't mute unless you rip out the actual loudspeaker.
Earphones would be nice - you know, like in those vacuum cleaners that allow you to clean up at night in an apartment building?
Timo Saloniemi
Earphones would be nice - you know, like in those vacuum cleaners that allow you to clean up at night in an apartment building?
Timo Saloniemi
How was that an insult?
No worries -- my apologies, as I hadn't had my coffee yet and your wording somehow gave me the impression that you were implying I was a custodial cleaning person who vacuums apartment buildings.
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