"Enterprise" too advanced for 22nd Century
- Thread starter CaptainSpirk
- Start date
There was a Daedalus model in DS9's school and then later in Sisko's office with TOS markings and colouring.
But with markings like that, this would be a post-NX-01, Enterprise, Federation ship design. Possibly even 23rd century.
I was just pointing out that it existed outside of the books, and the 'Ball' design wasn't only 24/25th century.
I wasn't talking about it being ENT era. That was Brainsucker.
The NX Class as we know it does exist in the Kelvin Timeline.
There is a model of the Enterprise in Admiral Marcus' office.
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What I said was that "the ball design is 24th century". That is, it's the future and therefore should not be considered the past, regardless of whether it also pops up elsewhere.
What I also said was that there never was a Daedalus on screen to flaunt a ball hull. That is, there never was a Daedalus on screen, period. The only time such a ship class made an appearance was in TNG "Power Play", and it was dialogue only, and also clearly not a pre-ENT ship.
There are two onscreen designs with spherical hulls, the "live" 24th century one and the tabletop model. The former, at least in theory, could be identified as Olympic class thanks to her dedication plaque, even if that was never in focus; the latter had no class identity. It would be pretty odd to formulate the ENT design ethos based on either of those vessels.
Timo Saloniemi
What I also said was that there never was a Daedalus on screen to flaunt a ball hull. That is, there never was a Daedalus on screen, period. The only time such a ship class made an appearance was in TNG "Power Play", and it was dialogue only, and also clearly not a pre-ENT ship.
There are two onscreen designs with spherical hulls, the "live" 24th century one and the tabletop model. The former, at least in theory, could be identified as Olympic class thanks to her dedication plaque, even if that was never in focus; the latter had no class identity. It would be pretty odd to formulate the ENT design ethos based on either of those vessels.
Timo Saloniemi
Well I wasn't arguing with Brainsucker's point, I agree that it isn't Ent-Era.
Background information says that model is a Daedalus class.
The same way the Akira Class name came from background information, it was never said or seen on screen.
(Which technically speaking means the name Akira isn't canon if you go by the strictest form of canon)
Background information says that model is a Daedalus class.
The same way the Akira Class name came from background information, it was never said or seen on screen.
(Which technically speaking means the name Akira isn't canon if you go by the strictest form of canon)
^ True, but at least the Akira has the advantage of appearing onscreen, in battle, with a very specific and detailed look. The Daedalus has none of that.
The model in Sisko's office is so vague and undefined that there's a lot of wiggle room if the ship were to ever appear in an episode or film.
Perhaps. The divergence took place 12 years before the launch of the TOS Enterprise so who knows if there was ever a ship with that name that came between NX-01 and nuEnterprise. Although in the (yes, yes, I know, non-canon) comics, there was one.
And if you accept deleted scenes as canon, there was a USS Biddeford that was a TOS-era Constitution class ship, even in the Kelvin timeline. So perhaps the actual TOS Enterprise existed in some form in Kelvinverse as well.
(Unfortunately, it seems that there never were any actual plans to have the TOS Enterprise be the ship that was destroyed in the opening scenes of ST09. I guess that was always just a rumor.)
The model in Sisko's office is so vague and undefined that there's a lot of wiggle room if the ship were to ever appear in an episode or film.
Perhaps. The divergence took place 12 years before the launch of the TOS Enterprise so who knows if there was ever a ship with that name that came between NX-01 and nuEnterprise. Although in the (yes, yes, I know, non-canon) comics, there was one.
And if you accept deleted scenes as canon, there was a USS Biddeford that was a TOS-era Constitution class ship, even in the Kelvin timeline. So perhaps the actual TOS Enterprise existed in some form in Kelvinverse as well.
(Unfortunately, it seems that there never were any actual plans to have the TOS Enterprise be the ship that was destroyed in the opening scenes of ST09. I guess that was always just a rumor.)
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No. It should have looked like the ring ship on the Rec Deck in TMP. That is the ONLY enterprise shown to have existed between the shuttle and the Kirk era.*
There was no contamination. The events in First Contact are what always happened.
I just choose to believe Enterprise never happened at all.
* Wow, I haven't made that argument in a while.
How do you know it's the ONLY one?
Because I could clearly see with my own eyes that is was "the ONLY enterprise shown to have existed between the shuttle and the Kirk era."
Now you could argue that there were Enterprises that existed between the shuttle and Kirk era that were not shown.
However, the intent was clearly to show a history of the Enterprise name. Also, wouldn't ship as historically important as the NX-01 merit a place on that wall over a failed test bed?
But they don't show all the Enterprises. Just a select few, or a variety of Design. They depict a different lineage in TNG, and change it again in the TNG movies.
If you are referring to the other ocean going vessels names Enterprise, how do we know they even existed in the Star Trek Universe? Maybe in the Star Trek Universe there were only one sailing ship and one nuclear carrier named Enterprise.
We're not talking about TNG lineages we're talking about the TMP rec dec images.
Not sure what you mean. They are clearly not paintings. But they are some form of still image.
Yet, in the selection process the ring ship failed testbed somehow managed to beat out the far more illustrious NX-01? Seems unlikely to me.
Decker's exact words were "All those vessels were called Enterprise."
He did NOT say "Those were all the vessels called Enterprise."
For instance, you'll notice that only one of the two aircraft carriers was in that scene. This hardly means that the other one was deliberately slighted, just that they didn't have much room. It would have been impossible to put EVERY Enterprise into the scene - they had to pick and choose.
Oh, and @uniderth, I believe there were thoughts of digitally replacing the ringship with the NX-01 when the Director's Edition was being planned, but nothing ever came of it.
And speaking of which: There's no evidence that the ringship was a failure. We know absolutely NOTHING about it. It could have had a fine career for all we know.
He did NOT say "Those were all the vessels called Enterprise."
For instance, you'll notice that only one of the two aircraft carriers was in that scene. This hardly means that the other one was deliberately slighted, just that they didn't have much room. It would have been impossible to put EVERY Enterprise into the scene - they had to pick and choose.
Oh, and @uniderth, I believe there were thoughts of digitally replacing the ringship with the NX-01 when the Director's Edition was being planned, but nothing ever came of it.
And speaking of which: There's no evidence that the ringship was a failure. We know absolutely NOTHING about it. It could have had a fine career for all we know.
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Which I never claimed.
Clearly. And that's not the beef. The beef is: If theere was indeed a toss up between the XCV-330 and the NX-01 why choose the less famous one?
Thankfully not, becasue it would have been bullshit it they did.
Which I believe it did. Because the NX-01 never existed and the XCV-330 was the Enterprise of the 2150s.
But anyway, In the Enterprise series the ring ship was a vessel prior to the NX-01. So why was it chosen over the NX-01 which was <waves-hands-like-a-crazy-person>earth's first warp five ship</waves-hands-like-a-crazy-person>. Even in Enterprise the ring ship is hardly even seen, and not mentioned at all. Yet the NX-01 got a four season TV show. So clearly if we have to choose one we would choose the less famous one.
Which is the bases of the theory that it was a failed protoype.
^ If the ringship was a failure, then why would it have had all those shout-outs in ENT?
And no, you don't get to claim that ENT never existed; it did, it's canon, and it's not your place to question.
And no, you don't get to claim that ENT never existed; it did, it's canon, and it's not your place to question.
For the sake of Variety? To show the contrast between each period?
If I were to create an "evolution of the warship," and I only had 5 slots to show one picture each, the last two wouldn't be the two 20th century Enterprise carriers. I would put a ww1 battleship, then a modern carrier.
You make it sound like there were tons. There was a badge on a wall or something to that effect.
Nope, not canon. What me question it all day long.
Should we now debate whose father is physically superior?
