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Enterprise J

I like it (if you forget the official underside). But those windows still make absolutely no freaking sense to me.

I think it is multi- dimensional. ie it transwarps thru 5d space and appears flat in 5d space as a 3d object in 4d time would.
:lol: I didn't understand a word you said.

So you mean like a TARDIS? Makes sense. But then, why bother with the saucer at all?

I don't think it's a tesseract - the saucer is thicker than the Ent-D's saucer, but it's so wide (many, many times the diameter of the Ent-D) that it looks thin.
 
The writers have said as far as destiny goes, Picard will still end up as Captain/Enterprise-D etc.

Where and when was this said?

The timeline is so incredibly altered there's no way the same sperm and eggs are gunna meet at the same time in the future. All it takes is one ancestor of Picards to change what they're doing one day and go check out that big drill weapon of Neros and everything has changed.
I don't want the same Ent-D in this timeline and I don't want Picard. It's a reboot and everything should be different.
You don't reboot an entire franchise and then turn around and say "but Picard still becomes Captain of the Ent-D". Why reboot it just to say everythings going to happen the same. It's impossible in such a drastically altered timeline for Picard to ever even be born.
Regardless of events, some things are just meant to be. It was just as unlikely for this entire crew to get together in these conditions but they still did. That's karma. They do have to take in consideration the drastic changes made, especially for Vulcan characters, but there's no reason to say future events cannot happen in a similar fashion.

There's similar and then there's mirror-universe similar.

The events in the new timeline are believable because only a single Federation vessel, handful of people and one pure badass were removed from the timeline. Then Nero apparently sat on his thumb for 25 years, allowing the effects of his actions to reverberate. While all the characters were inevitably affected in some way, Kirk was most directly, thus his blatantly different path to becoming a Starfleet captain.

The alternate main characters are all at least 25 yrs old or older (except for Chekov, who I guess is 17 and clearly not the same Chekov despite the name - the character's birthdates are different, for one, and Prime Chekov wasn't exactly the pride of Starfleet), so their births could reasonably not have been impacted by Nero's incursion. They're all the same genetically, with variations to how they were brought up, life experiences, etc., but essentially, they're generation would be recognizable. Only the generation prior to the incursion would be identical.

The next generation (pun intended) should be unrecognizable. The actions of Nero during the Kelvin Incident, his later attacks, Prime Spock's actions after being marooned and all the repercussions rippling from them (especially the destruction of Vulcan, loss of nearly 6 billion people, and the wiping out of most of the Academy class and loss of the ships which will never go on their own 5 year, etc. missions), should mean that any Prime Universe characters scheduled to be born after the time depicted in the film can not exist as we know them. Some, perhaps, who came from isolated areas, say the Delta or Gamma quadrants (Kes, Neelix, Odo, Borg, Dominion, etc.), might still show up, but the vast majority should be gone, with perhaps a few following the Alt Chekov model of having the same name and being similar, but essentially just someone else with the same parents and name.

Destiny is all well and good, but to think there would even be a recognizable Picard, let alone an Enterprise D for him to command, so far removed from the initial temporal incursion is following the Mirror Universe mindset, which never made any sense whatsoever, regardless of how entertaining the episodes were.

-------

Does that mean the franchise won't go ahead and go with a hip, new Next Generation, Voyager and Deep Space Nine following directly from the New Star Trek? Who knows? I hope not.

Still, it might be fun to have a Captain Jean Luc Picard who's actually French.
 
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Will it ever happen now. :scream: My favorite enterprise.

Ahh, if my grandmother had a pan, she'd be a pancake... Terrible design. looks like a really bad photochop.,
 
The next generation (pun intended) should be unrecognizable. The actions of Nero during the Kelvin Incident, his later attacks, Prime Spock's actions after being marooned and all the repercussions rippling from them (especially the destruction of Vulcan, loss of nearly 6 billion people, and the wiping out of most of the Academy class and loss of the ships which will never go on their own 5 year, etc. missions), should mean that any Prime Universe characters scheduled to be born after the time depicted in the film can not exist as we know them. Some, perhaps, who came from isolated areas, say the Delta or Gamma quadrants (Kes, Neelix, Odo, Borg, Dominion, etc.), might still show up, but the vast majority should be gone, with perhaps a few following the Alt Chekov model of having the same name and being similar, but essentially just someone else with the same parents and name.

Destiny is all well and good, but to think there would even be a recognizable Picard, let alone an Enterprise D for him to command, so far removed from the initial temporal incursion is following the Mirror Universe mindset, which never made any sense whatsoever, regardless of how entertaining the episodes were.

EXACTLY!!!!!

I like the idea that Picards parents might still have a son and call him Jean Luc but the guy being born is not from the same sperm and egg and is therefore a different person. It's possible they may join starfleet too and become a captain but the timeline is altered so much that the picard from the original timeline cannot possibly be born and instead someone else is born and given the same name and grows up in the same family.
 
Destiny is all well and good, but to think there would even be a recognizable Picard, let alone an Enterprise D for him to command, so far removed from the initial temporal incursion is following the Mirror Universe mindset, which never made any sense whatsoever, regardless of how entertaining the episodes were.

Other than "no Ent-D" [the idea of four or five later ships bearing the name "Enterprise" is hardly ridiculous unless you expect the Federation to be wiped out at some point in the new timeline - you don't qualify that as being a recognisable Ent-D as you do with the other stuff :)], I agree.
 
I like it, but technically that image is fan made. The only canon image of the Ent-J we see is a distant blurry schematic on a wall in an ENT episode.
The image was made by Doug Drexler.
Indeed. I'm just glad this underside didn't make the cut; it's horrible. I love the thing itself, though. Especially the idea of a floating city in space.

Wow...the underside does look really awkward.
 
The saucer section looks way too thin! WTH... This must have been one the few episodes i missed for Enterprise.. Either way, please tell me that somewhere on that saucer is the registry "USS ENTERPRISE NCC-1701-J".. Coz I don't see it in that photo..
 
I think it is multi- dimensional. ie it transwarps thru 5d space and appears flat in 5d space as a 3d object in 4d time would.
:lol: I didn't understand a word you said.

So you mean like a TARDIS? Makes sense. But then, why bother with the saucer at all?

I don't think it's a tesseract - the saucer is thicker than the Ent-D's saucer, but it's so wide (many, many times the diameter of the Ent-D) that it looks thin.
^Correct, Doug Drexlor said the saucer section was at least 36 decks thick!
The saucer section looks way too thin! WTH... This must have been one the few episodes i missed for Enterprise.. Either way, please tell me that somewhere on that saucer is the registry "USS ENTERPRISE NCC-1701-J".. Coz I don't see it in that photo..
It's there alright! It's just right above the deflector dish under the first light.
 
The Enterprise-J is what happens when you photoshop the NX-01 up the wahzoo when you don't have the budget or time to render a full CGI model of a ship for an episode.

There is no guarantee that this ship will ever come into existence because the future is never fixed in stone. It's fluid, and changes frequently. "All Good Things...", "The Visitor," "Endgame," are all possible Trek futures that never came to pass for various reasons. There is no reason to suggest that this won't be the case either.

Ignoring the non-canon Ships of the Line Calendar, for all intents and purposes, this ship was the NX-01-J Enterprise and came from only one of many possible futures...like Star Trek XI.


That might be true if not for the fact that the J you see on ENT is a schematic, the J you see in the picture if a full render made for a calender celebrating all the cannon versions of the Enterprise. Love it or hate it, timeline or not J is cannon.
 
The next generation (pun intended) should be unrecognizable. The actions of Nero during the Kelvin Incident, his later attacks, Prime Spock's actions after being marooned and all the repercussions rippling from them (especially the destruction of Vulcan, loss of nearly 6 billion people, and the wiping out of most of the Academy class and loss of the ships which will never go on their own 5 year, etc. missions), should mean that any Prime Universe characters scheduled to be born after the time depicted in the film can not exist as we know them. Some, perhaps, who came from isolated areas, say the Delta or Gamma quadrants (Kes, Neelix, Odo, Borg, Dominion, etc.), might still show up, but the vast majority should be gone, with perhaps a few following the Alt Chekov model of having the same name and being similar, but essentially just someone else with the same parents and name.

Destiny is all well and good, but to think there would even be a recognizable Picard, let alone an Enterprise D for him to command, so far removed from the initial temporal incursion is following the Mirror Universe mindset, which never made any sense whatsoever, regardless of how entertaining the episodes were.

EXACTLY!!!!!

I like the idea that Picards parents might still have a son and call him Jean Luc but the guy being born is not from the same sperm and egg and is therefore a different person. It's possible they may join starfleet too and become a captain but the timeline is altered so much that the picard from the original timeline cannot possibly be born and instead someone else is born and given the same name and grows up in the same family.



Actually quantum perturbations should dictate that the further away you get from the change in spacetime the less the impact. Like throwing a stone in a pond, the interference waves eventually settle down.

TNG is far enough away from the time split in ST11 that the ripples or waves in the lake of spacetime shouldn't make TNG unrecognizable, or even most episodes of TOS. Like Spock-new said the future can't be certian but he didnt say that everything is ruled out.

Steven Hawking's Chronological Protection conjecture is kind of what I am getting at, insomuch that the cosmological wave function will tend to fix itself from any distortions or changes.
 
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J is cannon.
Just like this movie didn't remove any of the five tv series from canon, a future where the J did not get built would not remove the J that Archer was on from canon.

BUT - canon and validity in the main story timelines is not the same thing. The "All Good Things..." version of the D is still canon, but it obviously also isn't going to come about in the timelines we are following, either.

It being in the calendar is, unfortunately for your argument, meaningless - both for this reason and because of the standing policy that only screen (not published) Trek is canon.
 
The Enterprise J was part of the timeline that led from Riker and LaForge being on Cochrane's test flight up to the quantum probability that Crewman Daniels was native to. That probability, as we saw, got whacked. Thus, no Enterprise-J as we (sorta) know it exists in that future of the Archer depicted on Enterprise. Much less the exit ramp of probabilities generated by Nero and the Narada entering the timeline in 2233.

However - form frequently follows function, so if there was a good functional reason for the -J to look like it does, it or something very similar will emerge at some point. And, Archer saw the ship, and most likely included its design in his reports to Starfleet Command, increasing the probability that that specific design will be examined for utility by Starfleet.

Not to mention that there are any number of probable futures for that version of Archer that, while not the exact one that Daniels came from, are only the barest measure of different from it.

I'd say if anything, the odds are good that we'll see a similar ship developed earlier than it originally was. If "originally" means anything in a discussion of multiple probability states. ;)

Going meta for a moment, I'd also have to say it is more likely that we'll see something like it again, since future artists coming up with stuff for Trek will have it to look at, whereas they didn't before. :techman:
I have a headache. :shifty:
 
So basically the temporal cold war in ENT and future guy and Daniels and the Ent-J was all from the timeline we've had all these years where the Kelvin wasn't destroyed so basically now the timeline has changed thanks to Nero the future is different therefore the Temporal cold war must be either different or never happen therefore what happened in ENT cannot be the same.
So the timeline isn't different from when the Kelvin was destroyed it's different because the ENT temporal cold war must be different.

Get what I mean?

Actually, I'm willing to put money on the Temporal Cold War being started by the decedents of oldTrek timeline canonistas in an attempt to restore the TOS/TNG/VOY/DS9 timeline and overwrite the JJ timeline.
 
I like it, but technically that image is fan made. The only canon image of the Ent-J we see is a distant blurry schematic on a wall in an ENT episode.
The image was made by Doug Drexler.
Indeed. I'm just glad this underside didn't make the cut; it's horrible. I love the thing itself, though. Especially the idea of a floating city in space.

Thank Gene in his grave that, that underside isn't cannon and wasn't seen on film. eww. J is seckzy though how it is. :D
 
So basically the temporal cold war in ENT and future guy and Daniels and the Ent-J was all from the timeline we've had all these years where the Kelvin wasn't destroyed so basically now the timeline has changed thanks to Nero the future is different therefore the Temporal cold war must be either different or never happen therefore what happened in ENT cannot be the same.
So the timeline isn't different from when the Kelvin was destroyed it's different because the ENT temporal cold war must be different.

Get what I mean?

Actually, I'm willing to put money on the Temporal Cold War being started by the decedents of oldTrek timeline canonistas in an attempt to restore the TOS/TNG/VOY/DS9 timeline and overwrite the JJ timeline.


hahahaha I literally am laughing my ass off at that. I'm going with that. :)

FutureGuy wanted to ruin the NX and its mission to set the worldline back in course to the TOS Geneverse.
 
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