Enterprise is a better show than Discovery

[fireproof78]

I find the Discoprise to be a good mid-point between the NX-01 and the TOS Enterprise. But as the NCC-1701 itself, I find the design dull, boring and uninspired. Unlike the interiors which, while looking nothing at all like the TOS interiors save for the chairs, at least have an inspired look to them.

Aesthetic choices are that. I see no inspiration in the link you shared, and it feels, as you say...dull, boring and uninspired. It doesn't draw my eye in any special way. Nor does it have a weight to it that makes me go "Yup, that's a ship in space."

 

[Dukhat]

I’m not arguing with you about your opinion of how the ship looks. I’m saying that it looks realistic enough to me that it would have worked as the Discoprise.

 

[fireproof78]

I’m not arguing with you about your opinion of how the ship looks. I’m saying that it looks realistic enough to me that it would have worked as the Discoprise.

I'm not arguing either. I am stating my opinion. A mutual exchange of opinions as it were.

But, I appreciate you saying why it works for you. It helps.

 

[Sci]

I would say that it felt early on like it was leading to the founding, then stopped. Granted, it's limited series wasn't it's fault, but if I'm comparing the two that's a problem for me. Discovery isn't focused on one time period and therefore more interesting.

ENT S1-2 was a directionless, meandering mess that was leading to nothing. It was ENT S4 that finally started doing storylines that could plausibly lead to the founding of the Federation.

It's not just you. The clear intent (for the DSC and SNW productions at least) is to retcon TOS out of existence

They made the main character Spock's adopted sister. They were not trying to "retcon TOS out of existence" and the idea they were is absurd on its face.

I find the Discoprise to be a good mid-point between the NX-01 and the TOS Enterprise.

Oh, c'mon. "Mid-point?" It's very nearly the same design as the TOS 1701.

 

[fireproof78]

They made the main character Spock's adopted sister. They were not trying to "retcon TOS out of existence" and the idea they were is absurd on its face.

They addressed this but the point being made is that the visuals are being retconned, not the events themselves. It's the emphasis on the visual continuity as carrying as much weight as characters and events.

Obviously not retconning all of TOS, but the visuals are being changed, at least from certain point of view

 

[Dukhat]

The Discoprise has the same configuration as the TOS Enterprise but with clear design attributes from the NX-01.

 

[nightwind1]

I do not care for the uniforms either. And as for the ship:

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/EaGzvK

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/PeZQYo

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/nEXNm4

This is a fan-produced CGI model of an updated TOS Enterprise. It looks completely believable to me as something they could have used for a 2020's Star Trek production taking place in the 2250's. It is just one example of how people's arguments that the TOS aesthetic would look silly in 2022 is incorrect.

Meh...

 

[Dukhat]

Meh...

You're entitled to your opinion.

 

[nightwind1]

You're entitled to your opinion.

Gee, thanks for letting me know that. I'm glad you approve.

 

[fireproof78]

Well, that's why we post here, right? To get approval and certified Trek fan cards? I keep getting told mine's in the mail...

...

...

 

[Dukhat]

Gee, thanks for letting me know that. I'm glad you approve.

I think you misunderstand. I wasn’t being flippant. I was stating that I get that you don’t care for the design as much as I do.

 

[gweeps]

Yes, ENT is the better show.

It's not tied to the OS nearly as much.

There are more episodes to delve into the universe.

You get to know more of the characters, well except for Travis...

Every major plotline doesn't revolve around one character.

It has plenty of great one-off episodes, but still manages to have some longform arcs.

You can hear the actors talk instead of the constant whispering on DIS.

I don't have a desire to rewatch any of DIS unlike ENT. I do enjoy bits and pieces of DIS though, but that's not enough to overcome the huge flaws.

Still, I'll watch Season 5 next year. lol

 

[Sci]

Yes, ENT is the better show.

It's not tied to the OS nearly as much.

On a plot level, that was true for the first two seasons of DIS. It's not true anymore. Structurally, ENT was imitating TOS a lot more with its focus on three main characters.

You get to know more of the characters, well except for Travis...

Nah. Phlox, Hoshi, Malcolm, and Travis are all developed significantly less than Saru, Paul, Hugh, Adira, Gray, etc.

It has plenty of great one-off episodes,

"Plenty."

You can hear the actors talk instead of the constant whispering on DIS.

??? That's a you problem, not a DIS problem. The sound mix is fine.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Every major plotline doesn't revolve around one character.

Neither is that the case with Discovery.

You can hear the actors talk instead of the constant whispering on DIS.

You don't seem to understand what 'constant' means.

 

[rondo]

I got kicked off a faceybook page for my negative opinion on this show. I'm new so I won't say anything (yet) lol

 

[Tuskin38]

I got kicked off a faceybook page for my negative opinion on this show. I'm new so I won't say anything (yet) lol

You don’t be kicked from here unless you break the forum rules.

Just don’t act surprised when people trying to counter your opinion

 

[Oddish]

I got kicked off a faceybook page for my negative opinion on this show. I'm new so I won't say anything (yet)

A lot of communities like to tell you how to think. Bad way to run a community, I think... without disagreement, there's no opportunity to learn from each other.

 

[rondo]

You don’t be kicked from here unless you break the forum rules.

Nut don’t act surprised when people trying to counter your opinion

I welcome discussion and a differing opinion doesn't hurt my feelings. I would welcome a forum or place where all opinions are welcome without it getting personal.

 

[Uhura's Song]

YMMV on which shows are preferable. For me, it more about Tiers and less about ordinal rankings.

Tier 1: TOS, TNG, DS9
Tier 2: VOY, ENT
Tier 3: TAS

I don't hate any Trek shows. I like them all to varying degrees. Though some are more frustrating than others.

None of the NuTrek shows are finished yet, so hard to rate them. But I certainly cannot go higher than Tier 2 on PIC or Disco.

Even my top tier shows have gaping flaws. Everyone outside of Kirk/Spock/McCoy is an extra on TOS. They tried early in with Uhura & Rand but it went nowhere. Crosby left TNG because they flat out told her her chatacter she was eye candy.

And even the most frustrating (VOY, ENT, DISCO, PIC) have had really great episodes and moments.

I was very disappointed with Enterprise as it was airing. The decon chamber, the Vulcan pressure rubs, and getting Jolene to improbably bend over a lot were just a bit too much for me. And I have never been a big fan of the Time Travel stuff.

Having said that, on rewatch it fared better with me. I knew what was coming on Decon & stuff, and just accepted it and moved on. I thought Enterprise did a great job with Vulcan and Andorian culture. The choice to have a more antagonistic Vulcans and more likable Andorian character (Schran) was inspired. Though S3-S4 are the better of it's seasons, Carbon Creek is still my favorite episode. It was improving, a lot. My biggest gripe is that the finale is told through the eyes of Riker & Troi, and not letting the cast & crew take a proper bow. I like the theme song, even.

As for DISCO, I am firmly in the camp that thinks SMG deserves a ton of credit for (quite intentionally) fostering a welcoming atmosphere for/with the other actors, resulting in the best cast comaraderie since TNG.

I think a lot of criticism that nuTrek gets is boneheaded. I mean, of course Disco looks more modern than TOS, it's 2023 not 1965. Women won't be in mini-skirts. Computers don't use floppy discs or memory tapes. We can 3D print right now and can do virtual reality. If, as a fan, you don't get why that is the case, then no amount of civil discourse is gonna fix it. What we thought was futuristic in 1965 is already outdated in 2023. People on futuristic ships cannot be using LESS modern stuff than we have.

And I fear a some of the DISCO/nuTrek hate comes from the RWNJ war on wokeness that objects more to the color/gender of the main character, having gay/LGBTQ+ characters portrayed in positive ways, or dislike shots at wanton cruelty & authoritarianism, putting kids in cages, & the like. I mistrust a lot of audience reviews sites because if this.

That is not to say there are not legit criticisms. I will just flatly state that I tend to like episodic better than serial. The ending is much more impactful in serial, and DISCO really only went 1/4 in sticking it.

I think the pendulum swung WAY too far into character emotions at critical times. Let's explore the emotions, fine, but not when we have 10 seconds to warp the ship to safety. Yes?

Nor am I a huge fan of the loose language. The swearing (I like the Voyage Home treatment), the use of modern slang, or too familial interactions on the bridge (on Starfleet ships).

The second half of S2 and the Burn reveal were the low points for me. Pre Mirror U S1, pre Control S2, and S4 ending the highs for me. YMMV, of course. And all this stuff.

If I had to rate NuTrek (so far):

Tier 1: SNW, LD, PRO
Tier 2: DISCO, PIC

I have more trouble comparing old to new.

 

[IMC Headquarters]

Enterprise and Discovery weren't afraid to explore Klingon origins. And Discovery masterfully, artistically, rebuilt the whole culture from the ground up. I applaud their efforts. And I felt a thrill when Admiral Cornwell called back to Archer's crew standing in the Great Hall (and living to tell the tale).