ENTERPRISE, and T & A.

[TheGodBen]

Honestly, no, but not because the crew isn't professional. They wouldn't show that because for all the flipping out people do about the astonishing fact that there are differences between men and women and OMG!!! women have BOOBIES!!!!! it would have been a zillion times worse if there were even a HINT of same-sex touching or attraction. We're still that immature as a viewing audience.

But that's my point, the scene was trying to be sexual. They could have filmed a scene between Trip and Malcolm rubbing the gel onto one another and by using different camera angles and editing techniques it would have come across as a perfectly normal and professional thing. We see scenes between nearly naked men in dressing rooms on TV all the time but they aren't normally filmed in a sexual manner.

The same could have been done in the scene between Trip and T'Pol, but the way it was put together was intended to cause arousal for a certain demographic. And that's why I have a problem with the scene, it tried to be two different things and ended up being pathetic. If they had filmed the scene to suggest professionalism then I would have been okay with it, if they had done a straight-up sex scene I would have been okay with it, but I felt utterly embarrassed by what we got.

 

[bluedana]

But that's my point, the scene was trying to be sexual. They could have filmed a scene between Trip and Malcolm rubbing the gel onto one another and by using different camera angles and editing techniques it would have come across as a perfectly normal and professional thing. We see scenes between nearly naked men in dressing rooms on TV all the time but they aren't normally filmed in a sexual manner.

We hardly ever see two men touching on TV, and when there is even a hint of it, it turns into "hoyay" (homoerotic subtext). We lilke to tell ourselves that we are so enlightened, but we are still a ridiculously immature culture, sexually. Because sometimes two people are just two people, skin is just skin, and the freaking cigar is just a cigar, Dr. Freud.

Clearly you disagree, but I think it's clear from the script and from the filmed scene that the juxtaposition of sexuality and business was the whole point. I think it worked just fine.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Spot on.

T&A good, but slapping gel on a coworker's back

It wasn't the T&A that was bad, Enterprise could have been far sexier and gone alot further and still remained under the censor's radar, but slapping gel on a coworker's back

What were they thinking? Slapping gel on a coworker's back

"Coworker" is a bit of an understatement or simplification. These are 60-70 people who eat, drink, sleep and live together 24/7 in a closed enviroment. They can go weeks or even months without seeing another living soul. Some barriers simply fall down. To them slapping some decon gel on a shipmates back is as intimate as you or I applying a bandaid to a cut on a coworker's finger.

And some barriers go up higher. Coworker maybe an oversimplification, but they're not only of a different sex, they aren't even the same species. These people share the same living and working space but theres never been anything to indicate any intimacy between any of the characters

The intention of the script would have been better served by a fully naked soapy steamy shower scene, albeit with appropriate camera angles and well placed visual obstructions, and not a hint of modesty or shame, the dialogue should been important, and the camera above the neckline. What we did get was naff.

Starship Troopers?

Not sure what you're saying in your first paragraph. On this Enterprise only two crewmembers are not human. Some of the crew are "intimate" in the sense they have relationships of a sexual nature. Others are intimate in the sense they live in close quarters. They are comfortable with each other in just about any situation.

 

[commodore64]

We like to tell ourselves that we are so enlightened, but we are still a ridiculously immature culture, sexually.

I think that's the very argument here, Blue. At least, I believe that's what GodBen and I are saying.

Maybe it boils down to: some believe the asexual sexuality (no arguing the intention) was childish and unnecessary, and some liked it and thought it worked.

 

[robtclements]

Maybe it boils down to: some believe the asexual sexuality (no arguing the intention) was childish and unnecessary, and some liked it and thought it worked.

There's actually a third option, which is the position i take: that the not really/keep it sexy doublespeak was so obvious it became annoying. If they wanted it to be sexy, they should have been sexy; it they wanted to appeal to teenies (which was TOS's original crowd, after all), they should have kept it clean; but - as is usually the case - trying to play to both crowds ended up appealing to neither. TNG was a family show (in the sense that families could - & often would - sit down to watch the show together; DS9 cleverly gained its cult-within-a-cult status by targetting a more adult crowd; but in an era where the parents have one tv & the kids three (plus two internet connections), ENT failed because it couldn't see that the rules of broadcast entertainment had changed

 

[Nerys Myk]

it they wanted to appeal to teenies (which was TOS's original crowd, after all)

Huh??????? TOS was created as an Adult drama.

 

[pymfan2000]

It has always been my understanding that Classic Trek was meant for young adults and teens.

 

[SFRabid]

The real problem with the decon scene was it FELT like it was created JUST to show Trip and T'Pol in skivies rubbing on each other. That made the show come across like a cheap 70's tittie-flick.

 

[Penguin]

Sf Rabid, Yup. but I think they were just testing to see if anyone was paying attention.

 

[commodore64]

it they wanted to appeal to teenies (which was TOS's original crowd, after all)

Huh??????? TOS was created as an Adult drama.

Why'd they hire a Davy Jones (from the Monkees) look-alike? Walter Koenig (Chekov) was hired to increase chick demographics.

I think teenies or adults, Gene wouldn't care if the ratings were good and he got to make more Star Trek.

SFRabid, yup.

 

[robtclements]

Huh??????? TOS was created as an Adult drama.

True; but that wasn't the market it ultimately found

 

[Nerys Myk]

It has always been my understanding that Classic Trek was meant for young adults and teens.

I doin't think that was the audience Gene and NBC were hoping for. The shows Gene often compared Star Trek to were dramas intended for adults, that also had some appeal to a younger audience.

 

[Broccoli]

Hmm...everyone here is right. Instead of that obviously forced just to sell sex. Instead, they should have done it like this: T'Pol should have stripped down while talking to her roommate who is in her undies (Hoshi, perhaps) while Trip, in his undies, hides under the bed. It'd be okay, because they can be talking about their jobs on the ship and that makes it mature.

 

[commodore64]

Hmm...everyone here is right. Instead of that obviously forced just to sell sex. Instead, they should have done it like this: T'Pol should have stripped down while talking to her roommate who is in her undies (Hoshi, perhaps) while Trip, in his undies, hides under the bed. It'd be okay, because they can be talking about their jobs on the ship and that makes it mature.

Ha - what a silly idea. That will never be done.

 

[Peter the Younger]

The T and A itself didn't bug me, as others have said that has been part of Trek since the beginning. Also, Jolene Blalock is an amazingly hot woman, and very sultry.

What did bug me on ENT (and VOY), was the juvenile, 7th grade way in which sexuality was handled. They put gorgeous women in skin tight catsuits, but then make them completely sexless - wtf? It made me think that showrunners were actually the two kids from Wierd Science, who conjured a sex goddess on their computer but had to wear their clothes while showering with her.