ENTERPRISE, and T & A.

[TheGodBen]

It's not soft-core porn, that was an overstatement on my part, but it was still clearly intended to arouse the viewers which it shouldn't have done because that is not what the scene was about in the dialogue.

 

[Anwar]

Precisely, there's nothing wrong with having nudity/semi-nudity and sex if it really is sex being portrayed in the scene. ENT and to an extent VOY tried to have sex be present in generally asexual moments, thus the dissonance.

 

[Middleman]

(detracting from the episode overall) -- why do it?

Unlike most men, I can concentrate on two things at the same time!

 

[robtclements]

While I agree with the sentiment, the problem is that the de-con scene in the pilot was completely asexual while trying to be sexual.

This is the way i see thae scene - it's like the producers are trying to have their flesh & hide it, too. TOS & the early NG were pretty openly sexy; & while DS9 tried to move into more adult relationships, Voy & Ent couldn't decide whether they wanted the kids or their parents to watch - so neither did

 

[commodore64]

(detracting from the episode overall) -- why do it?

Unlike most men, I can concentrate on two things at the same time!

Not distracting, detracting -- taking away. Although, I'm glad to see there's one male who can focus on two things at once. (My apologies to Mr. Commodore64.)

 

[Middleman]

(detracting from the episode overall) -- why do it?

Unlike most men, I can concentrate on two things at the same time!

Not distracting, detracting -- taking away. Although, I'm glad to see there's one male who can focus on two things at once. (My apologies to Mr. Commodore64.)

I never said I could read, but the other talent is truly a gift.

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

The Decon scene from the "Broken Bow" screenplay (probably not the final shooting draft; Trip is called "Charlie" in this iteration):

The metal slat slides SHUT. Charlie and T'Pol open small LOCKERS. T'Pol places her uniform on a hook, while Charlie simply tosses his in. Charlie strips down to his shorts; T'Pol, to a pair of underwear and a short-cropped tee-shirt. They open a compartment labeled "B" and remove two small CANNISTERS containing a deep blue gelatinous compound.​

Over the following scene, they begin applying the gel to their bodies. It's obvious that this is a part of their training... modesty is not a question. The phosphorescent gel glistens on their skin in the ultraviolet light.​

CHARLIE: Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you just kind of an "observer" on this mission? I don't remember anyone telling me you were a member of Starfleet.​

T'POL: My Vulcan rank supersedes yours.​

CHARLIE: Apples and oranges. This is an Earth vessel. You're in no position to take command.​

T'POL: As soon as we're through here, I'll contact Ambassador Soval. He'll speak to your superiors and I'm certain they'll support my authority in this situation.​

Charlie knows that if she makes that call, the mission is over.​

CHARLIE: You must really be proud of yourself. You can put an end to this mission while the Captain's still unconscious in Sickbay. You won't even have to look him in the eye.​

They continue rubbing their bodies with the glowing gel.​

T'POL: Your precious "cargo" was stolen... three Suliban, perhaps more, were killed... and Captain Archer has been seriously wounded. It seems to me this "mission" has put an end to itself. (beat) Turn around.​

Charlie turns and T'Pol begins to smear the gel on his back, rhythmically rubbing it slowly down to the waistband of his shorts. As sensual as this might seem, they continue talking as though it's business as usual.​

CHARLIE: Let's say you're right... let's say we screwed up just like you always knew we would. (beat) It's still a pretty good bet that whoever lew that hole in the Captain's leg is connected somehow to the people who took Klaang.​

T'POL: I fail to see your point.​

She finishes with the back of his thighs, stands and turns. As Charlie begins to rub decon-gel on her back, she raises the tee-shirt up to her shoulders.​

CHARLIE: Captain Archer deserves a chance to see this through. If you knew him, you'd realize that's what he's about. He needs to finish what he starts. (pointed) His daddy was the same way.​

T'POL: You obviously share your Captain's belief that my people were responsible for impeding Henry Archer's accomplishments.​

CHARLIE: He only wanted to see his engine fly... they never even gave him a chance to fail. (beat) And here you are, thirty years later, proving just how consistent you Vulcans can be.​

T'Pol takes this in, affected by his words but revealing nothing...​

It appears to me, from the way this scene is written, especially the action description, that the intent (besides moving the plot forward) is the juxtaposition of sensual imagery and business-as-usual.

 

[lceb]

It appears to me, from the way this scene is written, especially the action description, that the intent (besides moving the plot forward) is the juxtaposition of sensual imagery and business-as-usual.

That is exactly what I saw on screen too and I found it very interesting and well done. There other Decon scenes almost without sensual content (IMO), although the actors are in their underwear and rub gel to each other. I remember one when T'Pol, Hoshi and Malcolm returned from the Klingon ship and were very happy to be clean at last and there is the rather ridiculous one in ANIS.

 

[bluedana]

While I agree with the sentiment, the problem is that the de-con scene in the pilot was completely asexual while trying to be sexual.

This is the way i see thae scene - it's like the producers are trying to have their flesh & hide it, too. TOS & the early NG were pretty openly sexy; & while DS9 tried to move into more adult relationships, Voy & Ent couldn't decide whether they wanted the kids or their parents to watch - so neither did

This quote belongs to GodBen, not me. I actually disagree, and made the following, opposite point:

I've always approached the decon scene from the opposite perspective - that it's a sexual scene trying to be asexual. I thought the totally unrelated dialogue, given in this matter-of-fact manner while doing this seeming sexual thing, was hilarious.

which, it seems to me, is consistent with the script directions as HR just posted.

 

[robtclements]

My apology for the mis-edit, BlueDana. I will stick to my original position, though - that late ST was guilty of a strange puritan pruience when it came to sex; & that this hypocrisy ultimately hurt the franchise. If you're world has people as beautiful as Jolene Blalock - or if you're into guys, as handsome as Connor Trinneer - people are going to notice (whether with desire or jealousy or both)... to pretend otherwise is to inhabit the strange world of bad tv where the body is the ultimate object, photoshopped beyond the reach of reality

That the script rationalises the activity in a certain way is neither here nor there - it's just the set of directions the producers used to make a scene about flesh pretend to be something else

 

[Ro Boat]

I agree with the juxtaposition of the sensual and everyday business camp.

This is similar to the movie MASH in which the doctors are performing bloody surgeries while making crude jokes and being generally silly. That is what life is like during war. This is what life is like on a starship.

 

[Butters]

It was an integral part of ENT from the start, so I have no idea what you mean when you say they added it.
Maybe you're referring to T'Pol's scene with Trip? If so, I think it was high time modern Trek became less prudish. Sexuality is a normal part of life and therefore should be a part of drama, too.

While I agree with the sentiment, the problem is that the de-con scene in the pilot was completely asexual while trying to be sexual. It was two sexually attractive people in their undies rubbing gel all over each other while having a sober conversation about politics and the psychology of a third party. It was ridiculous.

If they were trying to sexualise Trek then they'd get no complaint from me, but they were just just throwing T&A into a regular exposition scene and the whole thing was pathetic.

Spot on.

T&A good, but slapping gel on a coworker's back

It wasn't the T&A that was bad, Enterprise could have been far sexier and gone alot further and still remained under the censor's radar, but slapping gel on a coworker's back

What were they thinking? Slapping gel on a coworker's back

 

[Carpe Occasio]

 

[commodore64]

I agree with the juxtaposition of the sensual and everyday business camp.

This is similar to the movie MASH in which the doctors are performing bloody surgeries while making crude jokes and being generally silly. That is what life is like during war. This is what life is like on a starship.

What MASH had that made that work was gritty realism. And you always got the impression they made the jokes to continue to stay focused and able to help their patients as evidence by the way Hawkeye mentally lost it in the end of the series. I never got the impression they were joking because they didn't care. On the contrary, I think MASH was successful in doing both. I also think it was a wise decision that Alda made to remove the laugh track all together. That also helped.

I agree in some regards. I think it was absolutely meant as juxtaposition as HR and Bluedana indicated, but unlike them I think it didn't work. Here's the problem. You have two people discussing ordinary things. Instead of have the camera focus on the two of them discussing these ordinary things, you have the camera focusing on a finger slipping inside some underwear. At that point, it's not a wink, it's a heavy anvil hitting you square on the head with a neon sign that reads: THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE SEXY! And, maybe it's just me, but I believe that when it's that overt, it's lost the majority of its sex appeal. I like allusion. I guess it's why I didn't think it worked.

Luckily, the rest of the episode rocked. It's why I came back, but I gotta be honest, I thought it was so bad and so expected that I almost didn't come back.

 

[Nick Ryder]

Great Freakin' Pic Carpe! Now all they need are sombreros! LOL

That's just too funny.

 

[Nerys Myk]

It was an integral part of ENT from the start, so I have no idea what you mean when you say they added it.
Maybe you're referring to T'Pol's scene with Trip? If so, I think it was high time modern Trek became less prudish. Sexuality is a normal part of life and therefore should be a part of drama, too.

While I agree with the sentiment, the problem is that the de-con scene in the pilot was completely asexual while trying to be sexual. It was two sexually attractive people in their undies rubbing gel all over each other while having a sober conversation about politics and the psychology of a third party. It was ridiculous.

If they were trying to sexualise Trek then they'd get no complaint from me, but they were just just throwing T&A into a regular exposition scene and the whole thing was pathetic.

Spot on.

T&A good, but slapping gel on a coworker's back

It wasn't the T&A that was bad, Enterprise could have been far sexier and gone alot further and still remained under the censor's radar, but slapping gel on a coworker's back

What were they thinking? Slapping gel on a coworker's back

"Coworker" is a bit of an understatement or simplification. These are 60-70 people who eat, drink, sleep and live together 24/7 in a closed enviroment. They can go weeks or even months without seeing another living soul. Some barriers simply fall down. To them slapping some decon gel on a shipmates back is as intimate as you or I applying a bandaid to a cut on a coworker's finger.

 

[TheGodBen]

For those who say that this scene was to establish the professionalism of the characters and not the for T&A factor, do you believe it would have been filmed the same way if it had been between Trip and Malcolm? Do you think the scene would have included that shot of the wandering finger?

Do you think that Archer getting a face-full of T'Pol's boobs later in the season was to show his professionalism? Do you think they would ever do a similar scene involving Archer's face and Malcolm's crotch?

 

[Michael]

Do you think they would ever do a similar scene involving Archer's face and Malcolm's crotch?

No, but they definitely should have done this!

 

[bluedana]

For those who say that this scene was to establish the professionalism of the characters and not the for T&A factor, do you believe it would have been filmed the same way if it had been between Trip and Malcolm? Do you think the scene would have included that shot of the wandering finger?

Honestly, no, but not because the crew isn't professional. They wouldn't show that because for all the flipping out people do about the astonishing fact that there are differences between men and women and OMG!!! women have BOOBIES!!!!! it would have been a zillion times worse if there were even a HINT of same-sex touching or attraction. We're still that immature as a viewing audience.

Do you think that Archer getting a face-full of T'Pol's boobs later in the season was to show his professionalism?

No, it was meant to show his discomfort and awkwardness.

Do you think they would ever do a similar scene involving Archer's face and Malcolm's crotch?

No, for exactly the reasons I already mentioned.

Nerys Myk said:

These are 60-70 people who eat, drink, sleep and live together 24/7 in a closed enviroment. They can go weeks or even months without seeing another living soul. Some barriers simply fall down. To them slapping some decon gel on a shipmates back is as intimate as you or I applying a bandaid to a cut on a coworker's finger.

I think a great example of this is a scene where everybody's suiting up (I can't remember the episode, early S3 maybe) and they're walking around in their underwear, including a female MACO, getting last minute orders, and it simply isn't an issue. Yeah, I was drooling, but I'm 150 years closer to the Victorian age than they are.

 

[Butters]

Spot on.

T&A good, but slapping gel on a coworker's back

It wasn't the T&A that was bad, Enterprise could have been far sexier and gone alot further and still remained under the censor's radar, but slapping gel on a coworker's back

What were they thinking? Slapping gel on a coworker's back

"Coworker" is a bit of an understatement or simplification. These are 60-70 people who eat, drink, sleep and live together 24/7 in a closed enviroment. They can go weeks or even months without seeing another living soul. Some barriers simply fall down. To them slapping some decon gel on a shipmates back is as intimate as you or I applying a bandaid to a cut on a coworker's finger.

And some barriers go up higher. Coworker maybe an oversimplification, but they're not only of a different sex, they aren't even the same species. These people share the same living and working space but theres never been anything to indicate any intimacy between any of the characters

The intention of the script would have been better served by a fully naked soapy steamy shower scene, albeit with appropriate camera angles and well placed visual obstructions, and not a hint of modesty or shame, the dialogue should been important, and the camera above the neckline. What we did get was naff.