Engineer Thinks We Could Build a Real Starship Enterprise in 20 Years

[Crazy Eddie]

Re: Engineer Thinks We Could Build a Real Starship Enterprise in 20 Ye

Here's a little history lesson:
The advent of a monetary based system due to the way it operates has killed A LOT more people throughout history because people have to prove their right to live.
And today, we have have the world who are barely scraping the surface to survive (are on lower than minimum income) - all the while about 1.3 billion are starving right now.

Killed more people than WHAT? The monetary system dates back to pre-history when humans were trading beads and shells for furs and seeds. The Summerians and the Egyptians used coin currency as early as six thousand years ago.

You present this as a history lesson, but you're not giving a point of comparison. What was the leading cause of death before humans invented the concept of money? My guess would be "eaten by predators" but I could be wrong.

 

[Tribble Herder]

Re: Engineer Thinks We Could Build a Real Starship Enterprise in 20 Ye

All you have to do is work retail for a few months to realize that the average human being is a moron, who is only truly suited for converting food into excrement. Unfortunately, many of these have managed to become elected officials.

 

[publiusr]

Re: Engineer Thinks We Could Build a Real Starship Enterprise in 20 Ye

If I had to design an Enterprise for space exploration--go the Declaration ringship route, only with a Biconic aeroshell lander in the nose, and the aft ring is the rotating section--looking a bit more like the NuBSG Space Park
http://fantastic-plastic.com/Declaration-ClassEnterprisePopCulturePage.htm
http://fantastic-plastic.com/SpaceParkPage.htm

Something like this maybe: http://www.astronautix.com/craft/selation.htm
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/stsation.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NAUTILUS-X

I would have something like this in the nose:
http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=11331
http://www.frassanito.com/work/images/planning02.jpg

I'd settle for this http://www.astronautix.com/craft/bonaucer.htm

More:
http://www.up-ship.com/drawndoc/drawndocspacesaturn.htm
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...=ring+shaped+space+stations&FORM=IGRE#x0y1932

Also here on the site:
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=175948
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=175609&page=2

Maybe in the far future we could see a space hotel shaped like one--rather like the "Solar Trekkie" from the book SPACE WARS, WORLDS AND WEAPONS IIRC

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Re: Engineer Thinks We Could Build a Real Starship Enterprise in 20 Ye

I'm rather partial to NASA's "Nautilus-X" concept myself. It's the only realistic design I've ever seen to include artificial gravity.

OTOH, put your astronauts on a fosomax regimen and you don't even need gravity, plus the space-saving benefits of zero gravity makes your ship/station a bit more efficient (not to mention more fun to live in).

 

[Psion]

Re: Engineer Thinks We Could Build a Real Starship Enterprise in 20 Ye

I'm rather partial to NASA's "Nautilus-X" concept myself. It's the only realistic design I've ever seen to include artificial gravity.

OTOH, put your astronauts on a fosomax regimen and you don't even need gravity, plus the space-saving benefits of zero gravity makes your ship/station a bit more efficient (not to mention more fun to live in).

I'm not sure the efficacy of Fosomax in treating the side effects of prolonged exposure to microgravity environments has been proven. Additionally, the National Library of Medicine cites the following regarding potential side effects from the drug's use:

Alendronate may cause side effects. Tell your doctor if any of these symptoms are severe or do not go away:

• nausea
• stomach pain
• constipation
• diarrhea
• gas
• bloating or fullness in the stomach
• change in ability to taste food
• headache
• dizziness
• swelling of the joints, hands, or legs

Some side effects can be serious. If you experience any of the following symptoms, call your doctor immediately before you take any more alendronate:

• new or worsening heartburn
• difficulty swallowing
• pain on swallowing
• chest pain
• bloody vomit or vomit that looks like coffee grounds
• black, tarry, or bloody stools
• fever
• blisters or peeling skin
• rash (may be made worse by sunlight)
• itching
• hives
• swelling of eyes, face, lips, tongue, or throat
• difficulty breathing
• hoarseness
• painful or swollen gums
• loosening of the teeth
• numbness or heavy feeling in the jaw
• poor healing of the jaw
• eye pain
• dull, aching pain in the hips, groin, or thighs

Taking a bisphosphonate medication such as alendronate for osteoporosis may increase the risk that you will break your thigh bone(s). You may feel pain in your hips, groin, or thighs for several weeks or months before the bone(s) break, and you may find that one or both of your thigh bones have broken even though you have not fallen or experienced other trauma. It is unusual for the thigh bone to break in healthy people, but people who have osteoporosis may break this bone even if they do not take alendronate. Talk to your doctor about the risks of taking alendronate.

Alendronate may cause other side effects. Call your doctor if you have any unusual problems while taking this medication.
If you experience a serious side effect, you or your doctor may send a report to the Food and Drug Administration's (FDA) MedWatch Adverse Event Reporting program online [at http://www.fda.gov/Safety/MedWatch] or by phone [1-800-332-1088].​

There's also research into an association between prolonged use of Alendronate and cancer of the esophagus. Can't we just spin our astronauts in a giant rock tumbler instead?

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Re: Engineer Thinks We Could Build a Real Starship Enterprise in 20 Ye

NASA's already done the fosomax studies on the ISS and is commissioning another round of studies for 2013/14. Preliminary results show that it works reasonably well and the side effects have been (so far) extremely mild. I expect this is mainly because astronauts do not actually HAVE osteoperosis and therefore can manage a smaller dose if they're just trying to ward off the effects of microgravity. Muscle atrophy is a different problem, but the solutions to that are a lot simpler.

Can't we just spin our astronauts in a giant rock tumbler instead?

With the singular exception of the bone/muscle atrophy problem, gravity is an inconvenience in almost every possible way. The very few ways microgravity is troublesome are very easily mitigated, and the space-saving advantages, not to mention ease of motion and (for larger spacecraft) severe reduction of accidents, more than makes up for this.

To put it simply, artificial gravity is really just an incredibly complicated and expensive solution to a relatively simple problem. Given a choice between a $3000 box of medications and a $300 million gravity system, the former solution is bound to be more efficient, even if it is less perfect.

 

[Psion]

Re: Engineer Thinks We Could Build a Real Starship Enterprise in 20 Ye

I've only been able to find one study using Fosamax on the ISS, and it indicated a loss of efficacy after prolonged use. Do you know of other studies?

Even if the bone loss can be mitigated, it would be nice if astronauts could walk unassisted after a 2 year mission in microgravity. Currently the only way to manage that is with a vigorous exercise program. Give them artificial gravity, and they'll get the exercise they need from simply performing their duties.

 

[sojourner]

Re: Engineer Thinks We Could Build a Real Starship Enterprise in 20 Ye

I would rather NASA pay a couple hundred thousand on a fancy exercise machine than to pay millions on artificial gravity.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Re: Engineer Thinks We Could Build a Real Starship Enterprise in 20 Ye

I've only been able to find one study using Fosamax on the ISS, and it indicated a loss of efficacy after prolonged use. Do you know of other studies?

Even if the bone loss can be mitigated, it would be nice if astronauts could walk unassisted after a 2 year mission in microgravity. Currently the only way to manage that is with a vigorous exercise program. Give them artificial gravity, and they'll get the exercise they need from simply performing their duties.

The Japanese did similar studies on rats during the same period, in addition to some genetic modification studies.

As for the muscle atrophy issue, while an exercise regimen is a pretty good start, thinking ahead to the joint stiffness problem we'd have to start equipping space suits with motorized joints anyway in order to make them useable at standard pressure (without pre-breathing for half a day). If you simply keep the motorized joints on the crew when they're OUT of the space suit, you could use the astronauts' own movements to recharge the suit's batteries, which in turn provides an additional mechanical load on the body as they move around. If you designed it right, it would more than compensate for the muscle atrophy problem, although cartilage and balance might still be affected.