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Engine Room(s) on the TOS Enterprise (revisited)

Mytran said:
I can't help feeling that there is some miscommunication going on here, so I have mocked up 2 examples based on your excellent cutaway:

The first is a full height Engine Room situated towards the rear of the saucer. As previously noted, this creates issues with a connecting curved corridor.
5G88snj.jpg


The second is a full height Engine Room situated more towards the core of the saucer. There is now plenty of room for corridor access.
J2Rnppx.jpg


Hopefully we are now all on the same page :techman:
Click to expand...

Now that this visualizes what is going on, I have two suggestions, and one wild idea.

Suggestion for diagram 1: Why not move the engine room as far back into the saucer as it can be and then make raise the pipes so the pipes extend into the part that stick out for the impulse engines? We'd get a close-to full height room in the "right" place with only a minor set alteration. It looks like the room itself, at least, would fit there.

Suggestion for diagram 2: If the Engine room is in the tall part of the saucer, why not move Engineering up one deck, to Deck 6, and then the pipes can extend all the way to connect to the impulse engines?

Wild idea: What would the size of the ship and deck height need to be for a 14 deck saucer? That would allow the idea of "decks" and "levels" being two different things, and yet match what was on said onscreen. Better yet, what would the size and deck height need to be for the ship to have only 14 Decks total?
 
Mres_was_framed! said:
Suggestion for diagram 1: Why not move the engine room as far back into the saucer as it can be and then make raise the pipes so the pipes extend into the part that stick out for the impulse engines? We'd get a close-to full height room in the "right" place with only a minor set alteration. It looks like the room itself, at least, would fit there.
Click to expand...
Works for me.:techman: This is also the way FJ did it.
 
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yotsuya said:
The way it is shot strongly implies that Spock gets off the turbolift and Kirk proceeded elsewhere. And while I don't have the scripts, I have copies of Blish's novelizations and in that version, Kirk goes to find Spock in his cabin and that scene plays out there rather than in the turbolift. No dialog seems to be missing in what Blish writes. So I would tend to think that Roddenberry or another staff writer moved the scene and added the deck 5 command.

And relating back to an earlier discussion about editing of scripts, Memory Alpha has this to say about the edits:
So which version Blish used and who between there and the final edit of the episode changed the scene and used Deck 5 is a mystery.
Click to expand...
I have the script. Scene 31 is all set in the turbolift. Kirk orders deck five...

The elevator stops at the floor requested; the doors snap open. Kirk eyes him, puzzled.​

Kirk orders Spock to Sickbay and goes on his way. The implication is that sickbay is deck five.
 
Maurice said:
I have the script. Scene 31 is all set in the turbolift. Kirk orders deck five...

The elevator stops at the floor requested; the doors snap open. Kirk eyes him, puzzled.​

Kirk orders Spock to Sickbay and goes on his way. The implication is that sickbay is deck five.
Click to expand...
Has anyone ever made note of how many of the TOS scripts we have floating around?
 
I have a question for Henoch.
In the deck reference info you posted earlier, under "Tomorrow is Yesterday" there is a briefing room listed with a note that it implies sickbay is not deck 6. But I just reviewed the episode several times and I can't find any reference to the briefing room as being on deck 6, or anything to imply that this is not on the same deck as sickbay, so what am I missing?
 
yotsuya said:
Thanks for noting that. I'll get it added (I hadn't finished off that end of the room). Much nicer feature than the food synthesizers in TIY.
Click to expand...
All that's required is a little tweaking to prevent that scanning area intruding into the corridor!
By Season 3 they'd rearranged the wall panels a little to keep it all contained, even if not consistently:
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x22hd/thesavagecurtainhd0187.jpg
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x15hd/letthatbeyourlastbattlefieldhd1417.jpg
 
Mytran said:
All that's required is a little tweaking to prevent that scanning area intruding into the corridor!
By Season 3 they'd rearranged the wall panels a little to keep it all contained, even if not consistently:
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x22hd/thesavagecurtainhd0187.jpg
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x15hd/letthatbeyourlastbattlefieldhd1417.jpg
Click to expand...

I think the second image is the better one...

yotsuya said:
Monte R. Johnjulio: https://www.deviantart.com/retrosteamstudios/gallery/
sg06s8.jpg
Click to expand...

I like that the best

QUOTE="Mytran, post: 12936256, member: 16929"]
By Season 3 they'd rearranged the wall panels a little to keep it all contained, even if not consistently:
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x22hd/thesavagecurtainhd0187.jpg
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x15hd/letthatbeyourlastbattlefieldhd1417.jpg[/QUOTE]

The second of those two looks t

="yotsuya, post: 12928072, member: 14203"]It is possible to squeeze the Season 1 main engineering into that area, but the corridor doesn't line up. Perhaps an acceptable tweak for some. But the deck level would be deck 6.5. There is no way to cram the season 2/3 main engineering in that space. [/QUOTE]

At the risk of sounding like a moron--that is why I bring up the TAS Enterprise.

I've never liked the idea of paper thin decks--but if you scale the Enterprise up--and it will be more than 947 feet--things work out better. Heavier line weight on drawings can mean the decks have work space in them--which makes sense.

I don't know if you have seen this thread before:
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/kirks-television-enterprise-deck-plans-wip.195496/

But the only way one can square what one sees on screen--with what you are trying to do, is to have Enterprise larger than what we see on Making. It means that the Disco Enterprise and the JJ version are all now about the same size.

Comsol's page has him putting circular decks in the Secondary hull--but I think you can have them be actually teardrop--meaning the secondary hull just has a lot of fuel--and that the outer window designs are just outermost observation lanes.

If I had to build the giant casino Enterprise or BTE Dans
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-trek-saga-how-starship-913891
https://www.buildtheenterprise.org/author/bte-dan/

I'd use a combination of yours and Comsols.

If you don't want to do that, then may I suggest--putting the Engineering deck smack in the middle of the saucer--where the computer goes goes in the ENT-D.

In real life--that is where I would put it anyway--where everything radiates out. Nothing (much) says it has to be right in front of the Impulse deck. The TAS engine room goes on the Secondary hull then.

Maybe it is the HLLV fan in me--but I always believe in making everything large enough that you can fit all the many set iterations inside a ship as you can--and still have more room to explore--rather than be slave to some 947 foot limitation. Say that is the length of just the two main hulls altogether--not counting nacelles.
 
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Some interesting ideas, but my plans are very set. I still haven't worked out 100% what all the parts are, but the version I am doing has 1 foot thick decks (no more) and most decks have 8' ceilings (some less and some more depending on what is there). Right now I'm on a mission to draw out all the sets so that I can place them. While that at first seems easy, there are two engine rooms, two briefing rooms, two sick bays and minor variations in other rooms. Plus the briefing room gets redressed at rec rooms, mess rooms, and the chapel and engineering gets redressed as the forward phaser control, the gym, and the theater. Plus I found a piece of Pike's cabin got reused both as the only thing seen of the bathroom and as VIP quarters that both Charlie and Anton Karidian used. Mercifully the bridge in the series didn't change significantly. And when I'm done with the series, I still have to do the pilot versions. This project keeps mushrooming.

35i23bn.jpg


The second season engineeringis fleshed out to match The Ultimate Computer (without the M5 control panel). That kind of impinges on the Brig. The VIP quarters were located across the corridor from Kirk's quarters which forced that version of sick bay to be compressed. And I came up with an inner radius of the corridor set of 44 feet with a corridor width of 8 feet.
 
TIN_MAN said:
I have a question for Henoch.
In the deck reference info you posted earlier, under "Tomorrow is Yesterday" there is a briefing room listed with a note that it implies sickbay is not deck 6. But I just reviewed the episode several times and I can't find any reference to the briefing room as being on deck 6, or anything to imply that this is not on the same deck as sickbay, so what am I missing?
Click to expand...
Oops, got my "tomorrows" mixed up in my hasty generation. It should be under Return to Tomorrow (not Tomorrow is Yesterday), Sargon is in Kirk's body:
KIRK: Sickbay.
MCCOY [OC]: Sickbay. McCoy.
KIRK: Sargon here, McCoy. I'm in your deck six briefing room.
(Mulhall enters.)
MCCOY [OC]: You sound terrible. Wait there for me.​
Sargon more likely wouldn't say he is on Deck 6 if Sickbay was on Deck 6. McCoy then takes some time to get there.
 
yotsuya said:
Some interesting ideas, but my plans are very set. I still haven't worked out 100% what all the parts are, but the version I am doing has 1 foot thick decks (no more) and most decks have 8' ceilings (some less and some more depending on what is there). Right now I'm on a mission to draw out all the sets so that I can place them. While that at first seems easy, there are two engine rooms, two briefing rooms, two sick bays and minor variations in other rooms. Plus the briefing room gets redressed at rec rooms, mess rooms, and the chapel and engineering gets redressed as the forward phaser control, the gym, and the theater. Plus I found a piece of Pike's cabin got reused both as the only thing seen of the bathroom and as VIP quarters that both Charlie and Anton Karidian used. Mercifully the bridge in the series didn't change significantly. And when I'm done with the series, I still have to do the pilot versions. This project keeps mushrooming.

35i23bn.jpg


The second season engineeringis fleshed out to match The Ultimate Computer (without the M5 control panel). That kind of impinges on the Brig. The VIP quarters were located across the corridor from Kirk's quarters which forced that version of sick bay to be compressed. And I came up with an inner radius of the corridor set of 44 feet with a corridor width of 8 feet.
Click to expand...

Very nice images. Could you identify the different gold-ish-colored room diagrams through the center of the image? They look great but I'm having trouble determining what they are. Also, the pink image at the bottom-most part, it is a variation of the engine room, but which one?
 
The pink at the bottom is the theater from Conscience of the King. Next to the briefing room on the left side is the chapel from Balance of Terror. Above that is Karidian's quarters, I think. I don't recognize the one above that.
 
Sorry for the lack of labels. On the left is the 1st season set from the Journey to Babel plan (with the quarters dressed as Spock's). Clockwise from the top are the Gym (Charlie X), Forward Phaser Control (Balance of Terror), Charlie's quarters (and Karidian's), the Chapel (Balance of Terror), and the Theater (Concience of the King the Kirk names as the theater specifically). The only extra set on the other side is Auxillary Control.

I plan on making some other quarters variations, the pilot sets, and additional engineering rooms (such as the access to the anti-matter stream from That Which Survives). I particularly want to make the engineering sets that pertain to this topic. I will be using a standardized version of each engineering and will omit the big blocky units because as far as I'm concerned they are movable.

From the set plans and set model I've learned that a lot of sets that looked like they were off a corridor just has a piece of wall sitting in the right place. The Emergency Manual Monitoring room was not attached so it has no fixed relationship to the engineering set (I have it pushed forward so there is room for those big units to be stored in a side room). But what I am doing right now is just the sets as constructed (to the best of my knowledge). The full bathroom is an exception, partly because it stars with what we actually see through the door.
 
Good job. Digital plug and play modular sets are the way to go. :techman: I don't envy your job. It was rare that we see any one set in relation to any other set, i.e. never a walk down the hall to the next set, rather, we get the idea that every set is on a different deck or on the other side of the ship.
 
yotsuya said:
Has anyone ever made note of how many of the TOS scripts we have floating around?
Click to expand...
Hard to say, because there are different drafts and no one collection seems to have all of them. I've seen final drafts of just about every shooting script, about a half dozen versions of "City" and various drafts of others.
 
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