Engine Room(s) on the TOS Enterprise (revisited)

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Spockskin, Jan 25, 2019.

  1. yotsuya

    yotsuya Captain Captain

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    Depending on the location of the ladders, they may be able to go down a couple of decks and skip some. If you follow TMoST they run around deck 3, climb down to deck 5, run around, climb down to deck 7 and beam off.
     
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  2. TIN_MAN

    TIN_MAN Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Not that I'm disagreeing, but is it really necessary to invoke TMOST? What you say could well be what happened based only on what we saw onscreen.

    In any event there are some scenes of Bele And Lokai running through the corridors without what I call an "interlude" so these would seem to be confined to the same deck, but the "interludes" could serve to suggest that they are passing from one deck to to the next, etc. But I'll have to re-watch the scenes in question to be sure if this is supported by the action though.
     
  3. yotsuya

    yotsuya Captain Captain

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    I invoked TMoST because it says the transporters are on deck 7. I also just watched the chase and they probably wound their way down through the decks. They have a pretty long sequence between when Spock notes they are on deck 5 and when they get to the transporter room.
     
  4. TIN_MAN

    TIN_MAN Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Does it? I didn't think it did specifically, though it would be great if it did, I know FJ does place them there however.
    Yeah, maybe there's a ramp, like we in big parking garages?;)
    agreed.
     
  5. Spockskin

    Spockskin Commodore Premium Member

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    As previously discussed many times, odd that a Recreation Room 3 is given twice. One on either Deck 3 or 4. One on Deck 5 or on a lower Deck 6 or 7. The only numbered RR's we find in the series are RR 6 and RR 3. We see many RR's throughout the series, but only RR 6 is seen in Charlie X and no other series instances are associated with another numbered RR, especially RR 3, and none are multistoried. Instead of spanning three decks or two decks as some propose, we simply have two RR 3's on two different decks. Hence Rand's dialog "Why don't you join me in recreation room six, deck three." because there could be other RR 6's on the ship. Maybe the RR number designates the type of RR in a modular ship, i.e. size, dimension, food dispensers, lighting, sound system, video system, etc.

    The ship has Recreation Rooms with and without food dispensers, Briefing Room, Briefing Lounge, Officer's Lounge, Crew Lounge and Crewmen's Lounge. We see two or more different type of recreation rooms throughout the series. Recreation Room 6 in Charlie X has food dispensers. The RR on Deck 6 in Return to Tomorrow appears to be smaller and no food dispensers. Most RR's seen on-screen seem to have dual use as eating/dining rooms (maybe at different times of the day - breakfast, lunch, dinner); or are those also referred to as "Lounges"? I think "lounge" is the same as "room" but is it the same as "recreation room with food dispensers"?
    We see ladder use throughout the series (hell, even Nomad used them), and after three years, there are zero references to stairs, ramps or gangways, so, I assume it most likely that the Riddler Bele and Lokai were using ladders.
     
  6. Spockskin

    Spockskin Commodore Premium Member

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    I'm baffled on how to do it, i.e. put up anything else but an image file. Here is the data as simple text which maybe you can copy and convert back to a table.
    No. Ep. Stardate Episode Name Deck Description
    1 0x00 0 The Cage Engineering transmit ship's power
    2 1x03 1312.4 Where No Man Has Gone Before Impulse starboard impulse packs
    3 1x10 1512.2 The Corbomite Maneuver 5 Engineering; Phaser crews and stations
    4 1x06 1329.1 Mudd's Women 12 Kirk's Cabin
    5 1x05 1672.1 The Enemy Within 12 Yeoman Rand's quarters
    Engineering a lower level; has a lower level which is the Season 1 Engine Room
    6 1x01 1513.1 The Man Trap 9 Section 2; Sulu/Rand were just in the Life Sciences Section - Botany department, so, possibly Botany Lab or have they just returned their food tray to the food prep center?
    5 Crewman Green’s quarters; Section 3;
    7 1x04 1704.2 The Naked Time 4 & 5 Fights and disorders
    8 1x02 1533.6 Charlie X 3 recreation room 6
    9 1x14 1709.2 Balance of Terror
    10 1x07 2712.4 What Are Little Girls Made Of? Impulse “we need more lines”
    11 1x09 2715.1 Dagger of the Mind 14 Section C
    12 1x08 2713.5 Miri
    13 1x13 2817.6 The Conscience of the King Observation flight deck down there with the shuttle craft
    H weapons locker
    14 1x16 2821.5 The Galileo Seven Flight Columbus prepared for immediate exit
    15 1x20 2947.3 Court Martial B In or near Engineering. Sections 18Y - 23D.
    16 1x11 3012.4 The Menagerie, Part 1 Hangar Shuttlecraft stored
    16 1x12 3013.1 The Menagerie, Part 2 Engineering Deck 3 Damage reports on main engines and emergency power cells
    17 1x15 3025.3 Shore Leave
    18 1x17 2124.5 The Squire of Gothos
    19 1x18 3045.6 Arena
    20 1x27 3087.6 The Alternative Factor
    21 1x19 3113.2 Tomorrow is Yesterday 6 Briefing room; suggests Sickbay in not on Deck 6
    22 1x21 3156.2 The Return of the Archons
    23 1x22 3141.9 Space Seed
    24 1x23 3192.1 A Taste of Armageddon
    25 1x24 3417.3 This Side of Paradise
    26 1x25 3196.1 The Devil in the Dark
    27 1x26 3198.4 Errand of Mercy 10 & 11 Blast damage
    28 1x28 3254 The City on the Edge of Forever 4 - 11 placed on alert after connecting decks (assume 2&3) to the bridge were put on alert; suggests no transporter on decks 2&3
    29 1x29 3287.2 Operation: Annihilate!
    30 2x07 3018.2 Catspaw
    31 2x09 3219.8 Metamorphosis
    32 2x11 3497.2 Friday's Child
    33 2x02 3468.1 Who Mourns for Adonais?
    34 2x01 3372.7 Amok Time 5 possibly Sickbay and/or Kirk’s quarters (Kirk goes to quarters; does solo Spock continue on turbolift to another deck and reports to Sickbay?) Unclear.
    35 2x06 4202.9 The Doomsday Machine 7 main energisers
    3 & 4 casualties; inner hull rupture
    36 2x14 3614.9 Wolf in the Fold
    37 2x03 3541.9 The Changeling
    38 2x05 3715.3 The Apple
    39 2x04 3777 Mirror, Mirror 5 Kirk’s quarters
    40 2x12 3478.2 The Deadly Years
    41 2x08 4513.3 I, Mudd 8 auxiliary control
    42 2x15 4523.3 The Trouble With Tribbles
    43 2x25 4040.7 Bread and Circuses
    44 2x10 3842.3 Journey to Babel Hangar Depressurizing. Recovering shuttlecraft. Hangar deck pressurizing
    11 Section A3, Jefferies Tube
    5 Near Kirk’s quarters
    45 2x19 4211.4 A Private Little War
    46 2x13 3619.2 Obsession
    47 2x16 3211.7 The Gamesters of Triskelion
    48 2x18 4307.1 The Immunity Syndrome Hangar Receive shuttlecraft; Doors closed; Repressurizing
    49 2x17 4598.0 A Piece of the Action
    50 2x22 4657.4 By Any Other Name
    51 2x20 4768.3 Return to Tomorrow
    52 2x21 4693 Patterns of Force
    53 2x24 4729.4 The Ultimate Computer 4 & 5 and/or 6? Unoccupied living quarters; 5 and/or 6 is confused between Scott and Daystrom
    54 2x23 4792 The Omega Glory Hangar "All four of the craft are still here”
    55 2x26 4815 Assignment: Earth
    56 3x06 4385.3 Spectre of the Gun
    57 3x13 4372.5 Elaan of Troyius 5 possibly Sickbay and/or Kirk’s or Uhura’s quarters (Kirk/Elaan start in turbolift to deck 5 possibly to put her back into her quarters, but with new danger, does Kirk continue on turbolift to another deck and drops Elaan in Sickbay? Kirk goes to bridge next) Unclear.
    58 3x03 4842.6 The Paradise Syndrome
    59 3x02 5027.3 The Enterprise Incident 2 passenger quarters
    60 3x04 5029.5 And the Children Shall Lead
    61 3x01 5431.4 Spock's Brain 5 personnel
    62 3x05 5630.7 Is There In Truth No Beauty?
    63 3x12 5121.5 The Empath
    64 3x09 5693.2 The Tholian Web Engineering Scotty in Lower Decks
    65 3x08 5476.3 For the World Is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky
    66 3x07 5662 Day of the Dove 6 & 7 Klingons control deck six and starboard deck seven; started in Crew Lounge suggesting on Deck 6 or 7; Kirk escapes and takes turbolift to Sickbay suggesting Sickbay in not on either Deck 6 or 7. Unclear.
    6 main life-support couplings; suggests Engine Room is not on Deck 6
    67 3x10 5784.2 Plato's Stepchildren
    68 3x11 5710.5 Wink of an Eye Hangar controls are frozen
    69 3x17 5757 That Which Survives
    70 3x15 5730.2 Let That Be Your Last Battlefield Hangar pressure doors; Hangar doors and hangar deck pressurizing.
    6 guest quarters
    3 and/or 4 recreation room 3, crewmen's lounge; both rooms or crewmen’s lounge could be on Deck 4. Unclear
    5 recreation room 3 (again or another one?)
    71 3x14 5718.3 Whom Gods Destroy
    72 3x16 5423.4 The Mark of Gideon
    73 3x18 5725.3 The Lights of Zetar
    74 3x21 5818.4 The Cloud Minders
    75 3x20 5832.3 The Way to Eden Hangar “one of the shuttlecrafts has been taken” suggests more than one present
    76 3x19 5843.7 Requiem for Methuselah
    77 3x22 5906.4 The Savage Curtain
    78 3x23 5943.7 All Our Yesterdays
    79 3x24 5928.5 Turnabout Intruder
     
  7. TIN_MAN

    TIN_MAN Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I agree completely.
    I get what your saying, and I agree for the most part, but then there are those stairs in Engineering. besides absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

    PS
    Thanks for the deck info by the way.
    I'm going to use this for the basis of a "revised" version that includes the distinction between Engineering Section and Engineering Deck, and whether either of these are distinguished by being among "the lower levels" or not.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2019
  8. Spockskin

    Spockskin Commodore Premium Member

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    One could say they are ladders...:shrug::)
     
  9. TIN_MAN

    TIN_MAN Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Maybe they're "stadders" or "Lateirs"?:p
     
  10. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Google docs normally does the trick. Here is my recreation of your work:
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=1g1i-uIBMzxbWGLg9dZbHge4RkwFuqBTl

    I would hesitate to call them stairs as they are incredibly steep! Their steepness also means that you always require at least one hand to safely go up or down them, a feature more akin to ladders than stairs
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2019
  11. yotsuya

    yotsuya Captain Captain

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    The proper nautical term for those steep stairs is a ladder.

    And for simple xcel files, you can always convert them to CSV, which are easy to post or email and convert back into tables.
     
  12. Ronald Held

    Ronald Held Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Could those rooms so multiuser, that if one room is repurposed, the others get redesignated?
     
  13. Spockskin

    Spockskin Commodore Premium Member

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    Day of the Dove (yes, again...) shows the corridor with Transporter Room several times.
    KIRK (in Transporter Room): Apparently you have a few things to learn about us. Detain them in the crew lounge. Program the food synthesizer to accommodate our guests. You'll be well-treated, Kang.
    Later after the fight breaks out with the Klingons, Kirk and gang spill out the "Crew Lounge" using the side door from the room into the same corridor with the Transporter Room directly across the corridor. It makes sense that the Klingons were put in the closest available room to detain them, in this case the crew lounge room directly across the hall from the transporter room. Since the Klingons mount their attack from this room, and control Deck 6 and half of Deck 7, that puts the Transporter Room on either Deck 6 or 7. In The Changeling, Kirk and Spock run the grav-clamped Nomad down the corridor into the Transporter Room which suggests the Saucer Engine Room is on the same deck level as the Transporter.

    I think the Enterprise has several different recreational-types rooms:
    1. Recreation Room - for general entrainment by all crew. Food synthesizers for drinks, snacks and limited meals.
    - I guess the Herbarium would classify as a recreation room. Having a round section, I would put it at the center of the saucer, but on which deck?
    2. Officer's Lounge - for dining by officers, only. Food synthesizers have preprogrammed menu selection which may vary day-to-day. (Is this the dining room in Trouble with Tribbles?)
    3. Crewmen's Lounge - for dining by non-officers, i.e. crewmen, only. Food synthesizers have preprogrammed menu selection which may vary day-to-day. (Seen in Day of the Dove.)
    4. Transporter Room - don't ask. :wtf:
     
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  14. Phaser Two

    Phaser Two Commodore Premium Member

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    For some reason I always thought Sickbay was on Deck Seven. Looking at Henoch's awesome spreadsheet (thanks, man) I now have no idea why.

    Note too from DoTD that when Mara tells Kang she has to go to the main life support couplings or whatever, on "Number Six Deck," they presumably aren't on that deck, as it would be weird for her not to say, "Here, on this deck" or something.

    I think I'm settling on primary hull engineering on Deck Seven and sickbay on Deck Five.
     
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  15. yotsuya

    yotsuya Captain Captain

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    As he pinpointed the episodes where sickbay is mentioned, I'm going to find the scenes in question and see what the episodes have to tell me. From the text in his file, it looks like sickbay is not definitively located, only hinted at.
     
  16. yotsuya

    yotsuya Captain Captain

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    I found both scenes. While Amok time is hard to imagine anything other than Kirk taking Spock to sickbay, in Elaan of Troyius deck 5 had no reference to sickbay in the order to take the turbolift to deck 5. The tubolift stops and Kirk tells Elaan to go to sickbay and they he goes back to the bridge. He never countered his original order to go to deck 5 to take her to her room. It could imply that sickbay and the officer's quarters are both on deck 5, but it could also be that Kirk left her on deck 5 to catch the turbolift to sickbay (which she is more than capable of doing) so I can't consider that deck 5 reference a reference to sickbay. And with Amok Time being so early in season 2, it is possible that it was written with a different ship layout in mind. If someone has the script it would be interesting to see what it says. Or if anyone knows how to contact D.C. Fontana....
     
  17. Spockskin

    Spockskin Commodore Premium Member

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    Spock shows up in Sickbay by himself, no Kirk. Kirk was next seen in his quarters. Here's how I see it: Kirk and Spock get on turbolift from the Bridge. Kirk requests Deck 5. Kirk and Spock talk, now Kirk is concerned about Spock's mental health because Spock says he didn't remember changing course...after which, Kirk orders Spock to go to Sickbay. [Off-screen, Kirk gets off on Deck 5 to go to his quarters, where he is seen in a later scene. Spock stays on the turbolift and request the Sickbay deck. Spock gets off the turbolift and] walks into Sickbay, alone.

    Not trying to move Sickbay off deck 5, just saying that it could be anywhere. The fact that the Enterprise-side in TDOTD was using Sickbay, and the Klingons controlled Deck 6 and starboard side of Deck 7, then it looks like Deck 5 or 4 make more sense unless it was in the port side of Deck 7, but this seems a little too close to the action and isolated, like the Engineer Room...
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2019
  18. yotsuya

    yotsuya Captain Captain

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    The way it is shot strongly implies that Spock gets off the turbolift and Kirk proceeded elsewhere. And while I don't have the scripts, I have copies of Blish's novelizations and in that version, Kirk goes to find Spock in his cabin and that scene plays out there rather than in the turbolift. No dialog seems to be missing in what Blish writes. So I would tend to think that Roddenberry or another staff writer moved the scene and added the deck 5 command.

    And relating back to an earlier discussion about editing of scripts, Memory Alpha has this to say about the edits:
    So which version Blish used and who between there and the final edit of the episode changed the scene and used Deck 5 is a mystery.
     
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  19. yotsuya

    yotsuya Captain Captain

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    As part of my project, I'm going to include all the sets in a logical placement in my layout. But the first step is to redraw the sets as built. Here is a sample of the season 1 and season 2/3 sets (I have not yet drawn the corridors). The Aux control room is from some photos of Jefferies set model. It features the pilot viewscreen (also reused in the briefing room on occasion) and the season 2 Main Engineering removed when they added the ladder and shortened the room by 4 feet. In at least one episode the Aux Control board was placed in upper monitoring room (something I'm going to ignore). The transporter room and quarters don't appear to have been altered other than some minor redressing (the transporter control console moved around a lot).

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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