Endgame

[Rom's Sehlat]

I just watched this. Wow. So Janeway breaks the rules for the people: specifically, Tuvok and Seven. She doesn't want Seven to die (apparently a boring death on an away mission; nothing spectacular like the Queen stabbing her or something). She also doesn't want Tuvok to suffer the neurological disease.

So is it in Janeway's character to break the TPD to help Tuvok and Seven in major ways, and get her crew home in 7 years?

Is it in Janeway's character to just break her word with that Klingon and just steal the time thingy?

 

[HoneyBLilly]

Well . . . yes.

We don't know the Admiral, and the years that we didn't see could have changed her drastically.

Specifically the losses of Chakotay, Seven, and Tuvok, so yes, it was in character. For the Admiral.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Omnicide?

In the future no-one thought of her as insane or criminal.

Harry and Reg even added and abetted.

Ever wonder if those corruption charges with the Ferengi (the tail end of the news report in the opening)had anything to do with Janeway?

But then they still let her "teach", be in the presence of children, so it was probably unrelated.

Probably.

 

[Gaith]

ONCE MORE UNTO THE BREACH!

 

[propita]

that quote means that the men had retreated and were mounting another attack.

 

[Art Vandelay]

^ It also means that he expects this thread to turn into a battlefield, as a few other threads covering this topic have.

My two cents: What I don't like about Endgame is its sudden ending. They should have dealt with the reintegration of the Maquis crew members, Seven's fate, awkward meetings with remarried spouses - and then have the Borg emerge from the transwarp conduit. So character closure first, then go out with a bang.

What I did like was that Voyager got home because of the bad guy (Admiral Janeway) winning - a nice change.

 

[kipron]

Law-breaking and double-crossing is definitely in character for Admiral Janeway. She's kinda selfish, but then again she's wrecked by guilt and regret. Rules be damned!

Imho it's within the realms of possibility that Captain Janeway could end up that way, she did show signs of darkness and despair on occasion.

Hopefully the experience of meeting the Admiral would help her avoid that future..

 

[Guy Gardener]

Um, once more into the breach clearly means "Shiii--it... This, again? Really? This! Again? Really! really? REALLY!?"

We all agree that the Klingon played by Vance Armstrong sucked when Vance could have easily either reprised the role of of Telek Rimor from Eye of the Needle again, or he could have played Admiral Forests great great great grand son IF he had already been approached/cast in that roll in Enterprise...

But it seems that the Klingon was a character from the Star Trek Experience "ride" in Las Vegas, and this was a subtle and synergistic cross advertising effort that was handled VERY poorly that it took me 12 years to notice.

Or did he some reference event from the "Experience" I didn't recognize?

Had there been pressure put on Berman to advertise the ride by the suits?

 

[BlobVanDam]

^ It also means that he expects this thread to turn into a battlefield, as a few other threads covering this topic have.

My two cents: What I don't like about Endgame is its sudden ending. They should have dealt with the reintegration of the Maquis crew members, Seven's fate, awkward meetings with remarried spouses - and then have the Borg emerge from the transwarp conduit. So character closure first, then go out with a bang.

This was my only real gripe with the episode. We'd waited 7 years to see them get home, so I would have liked to have seen more reactions from the crew, and from people on Earth. They achieved so much, and we never got to see how Earth reacted to that. And the sad thing is that aside from Nemesis, it's the latest point in the timeline, so we didn't get to see a lot of the repercussions.

But I couldn't care less that future Janeway broke the prime directive or temporal directive. Heck, Kirk rolled up his copies of those and smoked them on graduation day from the academy.

 

[Art Vandelay]

We all agree that the Klingon played by Vance Armstrong sucked when Vance could have easily either reprised the role of of Telek Rimor from Eye of the Needle again, or he could have played Admiral Forests great great great grand son IF he had already been approached/cast in that roll in Enterprise...

Any particular reason you keep calling him Vance?

 

[F. King Daniel]

I just watched this. Wow. So Janeway breaks the rules for the people: specifically, Tuvok and Seven. She doesn't want Seven to die (apparently a boring death on an away mission; nothing spectacular like the Queen stabbing her or something). She also doesn't want Tuvok to suffer the neurological disease.

So is it in Janeway's character to break the TPD to help Tuvok and Seven in major ways, and get her crew home in 7 years?

Is it in Janeway's character to just break her word with that Klingon and just steal the time thingy?

You're judging Future Janeway by what her current self would or wouldn't do. Future Janeway's had around 26 years to become bitter, twisted and obsessed. Current Janeway wasn't too impressed by her actions, either.

 

[Guy Gardener]

We all agree that the Klingon played by Vance Armstrong sucked when Vance could have easily either reprised the role of of Telek Rimor from Eye of the Needle again, or he could have played Admiral Forests great great great grand son IF he had already been approached/cast in that roll in Enterprise...

Any particular reason you keep calling him Vance?

It's a step in the right direction.

I'd already edited the post to stop calling him Lance Armstrong earlier in the day.

baby steps.

I wonder if Janeway could restrain herself from buying a cup of coffee with that cyclist if she'd bumped into him half way through Futures End?

 

[Art Vandelay]

^ I don't think Vaughn Armstrong would mind, you might easily convince him his name is Vance or even Lance.

A few years back at a convention, he walked up to a friend of mine and yelled: "WHERE DID YOU BUY THE BEER?"

Suffice to say, my friend had no beer.

Nicest guy in the world, though.

 

[JanewayRulz!]

Look, its simple.

Admiral Janeway doesn't believe in the "no win" scenario.

Fait accompli.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Surly time travel is the antithesis of fait accompli?

 

[Rom's Sehlat]

Obviously, Admiral Janeway had changed since her time as Captain Janeway. She used to try to ignore temporal mechanics because it gave her a headache, but she was willing to extrapolate how to rescue Voyager.

Oh, and in the episode, they find a bunch of microwormholes, or signs of them anyway. Were those the transwarp aperatures or something? SF recognized the opening as a transwarp thingy and not "wormhole." If the transwarp aperatures were not the cause of the sensor readings, whatever happened with the microwormholes?

 

[JanewayRulz!]

Surly time travel is the antithesis of fait accompli?

TIME travel is... ADMIRAL JANEWAY is not.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Obviously, Admiral Janeway had changed since her time as Captain Janeway. She used to try to ignore temporal mechanics because it gave her a headache, but she was willing to extrapolate how to rescue Voyager.

Oh, and in the episode, they find a bunch of microwormholes, or signs of them anyway. Were those the transwarp aperatures or something? SF recognized the opening as a transwarp thingy and not "wormhole." If the transwarp aperatures were not the cause of the sensor readings, whatever happened with the microwormholes?

Borg transwarp corridors are essentially artificial wormholes.

 

[exodus]

I just watched this. Wow. So Janeway breaks the rules for the people: specifically, Tuvok and Seven. She doesn't want Seven to die (apparently a boring death on an away mission; nothing spectacular like the Queen stabbing her or something). She also doesn't want Tuvok to suffer the neurological disease.

So is it in Janeway's character to break the TPD to help Tuvok and Seven in major ways, and get her crew home in 7 years?

Is it in Janeway's character to just break her word with that Klingon and just steal the time thingy?

If we all were given the ability to time travel if it meant saving someone(s) we were very, very close too, who wouldn't? What do rules matter in dealing with affairs of the heart? It's in ALL our character to do so.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Kathy uses timetravel on her life like most women use liposuction.

It defines the lack of her.