She wasn't given the ability to time travel; she had to steal it. But I think it is within her character and personality to do that. She was going to make a better life for Tuvok, and a life for Seven.
Endgame
- Thread starter Rom's Sehlat
- Start date
She wasn't given the ability to time travel; she had to steal it. But I think it is within her character and personality to do that. She was going to make a better life for Tuvok, and a life for Seven.
She didn't steal it.
She got that dufus a seat on the Council.
Meanwhile if he understood the technology, that it would kill the universe he was in to be instantly replaced with an alternate version... Too fucking right he didn't want to give it to her.
She was asking hi to dig his own grave and then cut his own head off with the spade.
Remember that that guy selling guns to teh T-800 in the orginal Terminator and then he shot her. Janeway didn't have to betray Korath because the very act she was in to, was an attempt to kill him.
Barring any suicide kick, Korath should have broken or swapped it out with a decoy as soon a Miral had confirmed that it was what he said it was.
It's like how Reagan and Bush (snr) sold arms to terrorists, and then a decade later American weapons wound up killing American soldiers.
You don't sell weapons to idiots who will use them in your front yard because you do not shit where you eat unless you're a fucking moron.
She got that dufus a seat on the Council.
Meanwhile if he understood the technology, that it would kill the universe he was in to be instantly replaced with an alternate version... Too fucking right he didn't want to give it to her.
She was asking hi to dig his own grave and then cut his own head off with the spade.
Remember that that guy selling guns to teh T-800 in the orginal Terminator and then he shot her. Janeway didn't have to betray Korath because the very act she was in to, was an attempt to kill him.
Barring any suicide kick, Korath should have broken or swapped it out with a decoy as soon a Miral had confirmed that it was what he said it was.
It's like how Reagan and Bush (snr) sold arms to terrorists, and then a decade later American weapons wound up killing American soldiers.
You don't sell weapons to idiots who will use them in your front yard because you do not shit where you eat unless you're a fucking moron.
The BIG flaw of "Endgame" is the lack of motivation for Admiral Janeway's action (and C/7 was the "big" flaw). It would have been simple to have provided more motivation, perhaps with some sort of Borg, 8472, or Vaaduar devastation of the AQ, but they didn't plan far enough ahead for that. Talk about the need for time travel; they should go back and fix "Endgame." 
^^I think the motivation was there, it was more of making that reason more relatable to the audience. If you look though many of the viewers reviews of the ep., many still aren't exactly sure why she did what she did. It was also hard to distinguish what was different about Adm. Janeway vs. Capt. Janeway.
I thought Janeway's motivation was to help Tuvok. She was going to break the law to help him out. (And Seven too, but I prefer to think that she was helping Tuvok more than Seven.)
She wanted bring the crew home but she didn't want to bring Neelix back with them.
Gods the pretence she went through to suffer that fuzzy fool.
OR...
Neelix needed to get his happy ever after with that girl and Janeway wasn't such an asshole as to get in the way of true love, therefore Kathy would NEVER have arrived before Homestead to bring the rest of her crew home.
Hmmm.
A similar excuse for not arriving just before Carey might have been that she wanted to sweep some scandalous tryst under the carpet?
Don't forget the obvious.
She wanted to avoid 14 years of Chells cooking?
Gods the pretence she went through to suffer that fuzzy fool.
OR...
Neelix needed to get his happy ever after with that girl and Janeway wasn't such an asshole as to get in the way of true love, therefore Kathy would NEVER have arrived before Homestead to bring the rest of her crew home.
Hmmm.
A similar excuse for not arriving just before Carey might have been that she wanted to sweep some scandalous tryst under the carpet?
Don't forget the obvious.
She wanted to avoid 14 years of Chells cooking?
I thought her motivation was to bring her ALL her senior staff home because they now were the only family she had to come home too. Everybody had a life after Voyager but her, all the sacrifices she made only to spend her life alone. Nobody even had the time to go visit Tuvok after spending over a decade with him. That's so sad.
It's sad that she blames the universe for her being alone.
Her problems are in her soul not in every other person in existence for not embracing her emphatically.
I saw Sunset Boulevard recently for the first time.
You understand that she murdered all her friends because she wanted better friends?
(A little like the Borg? They could easily archive species without destroying their meat, ships and buildings.)
That's hardly the act of a loving human being who is even moderately sane.
Her problems are in her soul not in every other person in existence for not embracing her emphatically.
I saw Sunset Boulevard recently for the first time.
You understand that she murdered all her friends because she wanted better friends?
(A little like the Borg? They could easily archive species without destroying their meat, ships and buildings.)
That's hardly the act of a loving human being who is even moderately sane.
What i want to know is, if all Adm Janeway wanted to was to bring the crew home, why make them go through all the rigamorale of hijacking the borg transwarp doo-dad and not just open up a rift with her ship like she did to get there in the first place?
The Klingon timespace drive she "stole" from Korath was over powered and to the point of exploding even when it was in a neutral... It could only be used the once. After all, later Admiral Janeway had to use the Borg transwarp conduit to get to UNimatrix Zero and meet the Queen.
She could have just brought some "Federation" transwarp coils with her, or whatever super technology they were using in the future to be "fast". The Guardian of Forever could have shown Admiral Janeway the History of Ichebs people in the Delta Quadrant if she had the whimsy to bring the kid along. It's not hard to out think this problem with all the gimicks out there. Time travel back in time 2 hundred years until the eye of the Needle micro wormhole is usable (And the Romulan strategic defences are a joke.)and SHAZAM, bobs your mother's brother.
Although if the Admiral made it too easy, it would steal any victory or sense of accomplishment (note the relationship between the Caretaker and the Ocampa.) from getting home if their hand was held too tightly by a mothering nurturing figure... So the Admiral had to devise a way of getting home which was both quick and possible but maintained the appearance of some difficulty so that her "old" crew were still heroes when they got home ([Andrew Dice Clay] Home, I fucked it,YEAH![/Andrew dice clay]) and not skeevy hitchhikers and cheater passengers on the shortbus. Which means that if they fell for Admiral Janeway's original plan they would have been rats in her maze fools falling for the old lady's shenanigans to make the crew of Voyager feel proud and swelled about against no odds accomplishing a complete certainty.
I have a conjunct theory that the Admiral wanted the Captain to reject her original plan as all part of her master plan, since any Janeway is usually too pig headed to do what she is told by any one stronger and smarter than she is. Kathryn Janeway finds bullies that need smiting EVERYWHERE even if she has to squint really really hard. So, yeah, if you want Kathy to do anything, you have to strong arm her into doing the opposite.
She could have just brought some "Federation" transwarp coils with her, or whatever super technology they were using in the future to be "fast". The Guardian of Forever could have shown Admiral Janeway the History of Ichebs people in the Delta Quadrant if she had the whimsy to bring the kid along. It's not hard to out think this problem with all the gimicks out there. Time travel back in time 2 hundred years until the eye of the Needle micro wormhole is usable (And the Romulan strategic defences are a joke.)and SHAZAM, bobs your mother's brother.
Although if the Admiral made it too easy, it would steal any victory or sense of accomplishment (note the relationship between the Caretaker and the Ocampa.) from getting home if their hand was held too tightly by a mothering nurturing figure... So the Admiral had to devise a way of getting home which was both quick and possible but maintained the appearance of some difficulty so that her "old" crew were still heroes when they got home ([Andrew Dice Clay] Home, I fucked it,YEAH![/Andrew dice clay]) and not skeevy hitchhikers and cheater passengers on the shortbus. Which means that if they fell for Admiral Janeway's original plan they would have been rats in her maze fools falling for the old lady's shenanigans to make the crew of Voyager feel proud and swelled about against no odds accomplishing a complete certainty.
I have a conjunct theory that the Admiral wanted the Captain to reject her original plan as all part of her master plan, since any Janeway is usually too pig headed to do what she is told by any one stronger and smarter than she is. Kathryn Janeway finds bullies that need smiting EVERYWHERE even if she has to squint really really hard. So, yeah, if you want Kathy to do anything, you have to strong arm her into doing the opposite.
They can build a transwarp drive from scratch and a slipstream drive by copying a fake starfleet ship..
they can build two delta flyers and unlimited shuttles and torpedos and wibbly 'anti-time' shields.
Pretty sure they could reverse-engineer the flux-capacitor or whatever it was Adm Janeway used given five minutes.
they can build two delta flyers and unlimited shuttles and torpedos and wibbly 'anti-time' shields.
Pretty sure they could reverse-engineer the flux-capacitor or whatever it was Adm Janeway used given five minutes.
Except the Admiral didn't want to go back.
What was she supposed to do? Go to prison?
I have no doubt that the idea with her going to the Borg complex was her intention, it was the quickest way since I want to say it was said in the episode that the device would only work once or something like that.
What was she supposed to do? Go to prison?
I have no doubt that the idea with her going to the Borg complex was her intention, it was the quickest way since I want to say it was said in the episode that the device would only work once or something like that.
The had to steal spare parts from the Borg, and some of the vital components of their slip stream drive had a vicious half life. That's wing and a prayer technology. I'm not saying they can't build replicators out of rocks, but either that "drive" destroyed the universe every time it was used, or it shunted it's passengers diagonally into a mirror universe's history even if that history is "right now exactly the same time it left", one outcome is unconscionable and the other puts them further away from home than they where they were in the opening sequences of Endgame.
The odd thing is that Miral says earlier in the story that she knows that the device works which means that she or some one else tested it while she was witnessing the effect.
MIral ate Janeway's return ticket with that test.
Miral as good as killed her.
...and Janeway killed Miral in turn, since the Miral born at the end of the episode will be raised in the AQ, on Earth, and not on a starship lost in space with only 140 people on board. She could turn out as differently from the grown Miral we saw as Shinzon was from Picard.
Yep.
I've even heard it questioned that Miral might not even be the childs name anymore either.
As long as B'Elanna cleared things up with her mother in Barge of the Dead, the kid should still be called "Miral" although it becomes obvious and more clear to me now that Miral is not named after B'Elanna's mother but it's short for Ad-MIRAL Janeway.
The kid, Miral, is a red flag and permission from the past, a blatant clue that Admiral Janeway had to go about her course of action we saw in Endgame?
The kid, Miral, is a red flag and permission from the past, a blatant clue that Admiral Janeway had to go about her course of action we saw in Endgame?
This Admiral Janeway thing came because of the existence of Voyager. A bladder developed in the space-time continuum because of what Voyager was- a ship with far superior technology and distanced from its' counterparts. If Voyager just sped back home with no confusing stops and interludes the bladder wouldn't have had time to evolve.
At first Capt. Janeway didn't need the bladder but their sustained inferance with Borg technology and with Admiral Janeway's help (and it was she who traveled through the bladder) she masterminds the plot to use the bladder and get Voyager home.
This is a quite blad explanation.
At first Capt. Janeway didn't need the bladder but their sustained inferance with Borg technology and with Admiral Janeway's help (and it was she who traveled through the bladder) she masterminds the plot to use the bladder and get Voyager home.
This is a quite blad explanation.
What is it that Adm. Janeway comes from. There are two other alternate Earths ; the one Chakotay and Kim explored in 'Timeless' and the one Kim experienced in 'non-Sequiter' Seaon Two. As soon as Adm. Janeway arrived next to Voyager the bladder closed-up- never to return. What happened to Adm. Janeway then if the captain chose never to return to the Borg Transportion Hub.
She'd continue to exist in whichever timeline evolved, just as Nimoy Spock continued to exist in the alternate timeline of STXI and Daniels continued to exist after history was derailed in "Shockwave" and "Yesterday's Enterprise" Tasha continued to exist in the past of the regular TNG timeline.
From any point in history, there are infinite possible futures. People travel back from these various futures and shunt us viewers onto a new "track" of the timeline fairly often. For example the two Captain Braxton's of "Future's End", from slightly different versions of the future ("I never experienced that timeline" and his uniform is slightly different) travelling back to the common past.
From any point in history, there are infinite possible futures. People travel back from these various futures and shunt us viewers onto a new "track" of the timeline fairly often. For example the two Captain Braxton's of "Future's End", from slightly different versions of the future ("I never experienced that timeline" and his uniform is slightly different) travelling back to the common past.
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