Endgame was awesome!

[DonIago]

Hard to consider you credible when your idea of bringing up counterarguments is to present them in a whiny voice. It's even less credible when you go on to acknowledge that they have some validity.

What were you trying to accomplish by demeaning those who disagree with you?

 

[R. Star]

Yeah Vulcan, not cool. Rational conversation goes out the window when you imply there's something wrong with anyone who has an opposing argument. I suppose if we had different favorite colors I'd be saying what mine was in a whiny voice too? If you love Endgame great. Enjoy the heck out of it. Gets pretty selfish when you get insulting to anyone who doesn't share your opinion though.

 

[Captain Kathryn]

Yeah Vulcan, not cool. Rational conversation goes out the window when you imply there's something wrong with anyone who has an opposing argument. I suppose if we had different favorite colors I'd be saying what mine was in a whiny voice too? If you love Endgame great. Enjoy the heck out of it. Gets pretty selfish when you get insulting to anyone who doesn't share your opinion though.

Hmm...I understand what you mean as a fellow person who also dislikes aspects of Endgame, but I didn't feel too much offense. I think he just really, REALLY loves Endgame.

It's an episode that is known as a "highly complained" about one in the fandom for usually the same reasons (I know I complain for the same reasons all the time), hence the whiny voice perhaps? I know I complain the heck out of it.

Just my thought.

 

[R. Star]

Complaining and nitpicking every flaw is half the fun in bad episodes!

 

[Vulcan Logician]

Yeah Vulcan, not cool. Rational conversation goes out the window when you imply there's something wrong with anyone who has an opposing argument. I suppose if we had different favorite colors I'd be saying what mine was in a whiny voice too? If you love Endgame great. Enjoy the heck out of it. Gets pretty selfish when you get insulting to anyone who doesn't share your opinion though.

Okay. I see your point. I didn't mean to offend anyone, and certainly those who dislike the episode aren't automatically "whiny". I was trying to be clever. (Not my best skill). Aside from my "whiny voice" mistake my arguments still stand. Endgame was awesome.

I've liberated my former post of its offensive portions to be more fair and to clarify its meaning.

 

[Melakon]

The best part of Endgame was when it was all over, Harry was still an ensign.

 

[R. Star]

The best part of Endgame was when it was all over, Harry was still an ensign.

You win the thread.

 

[MacLeod]

Okay, I reiterate the thesis I made in the OP. I'm fresh off watching Endgame and it is even more awesome to me now.

Let's look at some of the arguments against it.

"detractor": The Borg were feeble and their vessels were able to be destroyed with a single torpedo.

me: Yes, but these were "futuristic" torpedoes developed by the Federation specifically to thwart the Borg. It makes sense that if they were taken back in time they would handily destroy Borg cubes. Even such, Old Janeway fears that the Borg could easily adapt if they didn't finish the mission soon.

And if the plan failed the Borg would have knowledge of advanced future weapons which could make it wasier to conquer the UFP.

"detractor": Old Janeway destroyed the timeline and altered the course of history. An action she condemns in earlier episodes.

me: I concede this point to a certain degree, but your voice is still "whiny". Deviation from predictability makes for awesome episodes and Endgame is no exception. Would you rather have Janeway behaving in a completely predictable way for VOY's final episode? No. If that were the case, you would be complaining about THAT.

In other words her principals mean nothing. The point about principals is sometimes to truely believe in them it means sometimes you make your life harder.

 

[Captain Kathryn]

The best part of Endgame was when it was all over, Harry was still an ensign.

 

[DonIago]

Yeah Vulcan, not cool. Rational conversation goes out the window when you imply there's something wrong with anyone who has an opposing argument. I suppose if we had different favorite colors I'd be saying what mine was in a whiny voice too? If you love Endgame great. Enjoy the heck out of it. Gets pretty selfish when you get insulting to anyone who doesn't share your opinion though.

Okay. I see your point. I didn't mean to offend anyone, and certainly those who dislike the episode aren't automatically "whiny". I was trying to be clever. (Not my best skill). Aside from my "whiny voice" mistake my arguments still stand. Endgame was awesome.

I've liberated my former post of its offensive portions to be more fair and to clarify its meaning.

Thank you for your edits.

 

[4Cardassia]

Thank you for your thoughts, Vulcan Logician. I'd be very interested to read your opinion of "Endgame" compared to the finales of other Star Trek series.

 

[Katie O'Clare]

Well I have to admit that I am partial to endgame. In general I liked the way they got home. I even got goosebumps when voyager flew towards the assembled fleet. And the look on Admiral Paris' face. Priceless.

I would have liked some things to be different...I would have loved a longer homecoming. I didnt like how they ended it so quickly. Showing how the main characters reunite with their families, even if they would have just shown glimpses, would have been amazing.

And as a jetcer I would have loved to see them end up together. It didnt have to be like a huge love confession or something like that. I would have been satisfied with them just secretly holding hands and/or a hug with maybe a promising line from janeway maybe picking up the ancient legend...idk. Something like that.

A major facepalm moment was the whole C/7...errr....thing. I do like Seven tho, dont get me wrong but did not nor will I ever see any chemistry between them.

But since they got home I did get some closure at last.
And as for the things I thought were missing in endgame, I just pretend that the books following the finale are "real" lol

 

[Captain Kathryn]

Well I have to admit that I am partial to endgame. In general I liked the way they got home. I even got goosebumps when voyager flew towards the assembled fleet. And the look on Admiral Paris' face. Priceless.

I would have liked some things to be different...I would have loved a longer homecoming. I didnt like how they ended it so quickly. Showing how the main characters reunite with their families, even if they would have just shown glimpses, would have been amazing.

And as a jetcer I would have loved to see them end up together. It didnt have to be like a huge love confession or something like that. I would have been satisfied with them just secretly holding hands and/or a hug with maybe a promising line from janeway maybe picking up the ancient legend...idk. Something like that.

A major facepalm moment was the whole C/7...errr....thing. I do like Seven tho, dont get me wrong but did not nor will I ever see any chemistry between them.

But since they got home I did get some closure at last.
And as for the things I thought were missing in endgame, I just pretend that the books following the finale are "real" lol

If you like J/C, as do I, read the novels! (Edit: just saw you wrote that you have read them! Oops). There is good fanfiction for J/C too, if you can find it. You can usually weed through a lot of the junk and find some pretty fantastic ones.

I love Seven, she's in my Top 3 characters, but C/7 makes me cringe as well.

I've already complained enough on these boards about C/7 though. I need to let it go.

 

[Katie O'Clare]

Yea, Im such a sucker for J / C fanfics. There are quite a few good ones out there. One of these days I'll read the fanfic thread. I hope there are still some j/c fanfics left, I havent read yet...lol

Let it go? NEVER!!!! Its just too much fun.

 

[F. King Daniel]

With the exception of the unimaginably awful C/7 stuff, I very much enjoyed "Endgame"

 

[Vulcan Logician]

The best part of Endgame was when it was all over, Harry was still an ensign.

Isn't that a slap in the face? Paris defies orders and later get his rank restored while poor ol' Kim can't make Liutenant to save his life. I think Voyager is a clique.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Harry had his chance to show his stiff in "Nightingale". Light up the galaxy with his command skills, he did not.

 

[Guy Gardener]

He broke the treaty of Algernon and the Prime Directive in Nightingale

A more alert captain would have busted him down to the enlisted ranks.

 

[Katie O'Clare]

But janeway liked him too much do demote him to err....what...crewman?

 

[Guy Gardener]

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Starfleet_ranks#Non-commissioned_officers

Able Crewman 3rd Class, Able Crewman 2nd Class, Able Crewman 1st Class, Petty Officer, Chief Petty Officer, Master Chief Petty officer... And so on.

Berman didn't give a shit, but it's nice when O'Brien used to say "Don't call me sir! I work for a living!"

In the modern military the ratio of enlisted personal to officers is 9:1, automation in the future has probably reduced that one sidedness of that division.