I will never get that picture out of my head...
You know, it could have worked if they had used only ONE cliche from the Voyager series instead of every single one.
endgame, the best trek finale?
- Thread starter TheDoctor
- Start date
I will never get that picture out of my head...
You know, it could have worked if they had used only ONE cliche from the Voyager series instead of every single one.
I don't remember what the last episode of TOS was. But I was never that impressed by its last season.
TNG was a two-hour character study of Picard that could have been done in an hour.
DS9's finale started out great and ended up as a great bore and disappointment.
ENT's finale was sheer garbage.
In compare to the other Trek finales, I would say that VOY had the best one.
TNG was a two-hour character study of Picard that could have been done in an hour.
DS9's finale started out great and ended up as a great bore and disappointment.
ENT's finale was sheer garbage.
In compare to the other Trek finales, I would say that VOY had the best one.
Turnabout Intruder. Kirk gets body slid into the pouting frame of bitter old girlfriend Janice Lester, and vice versus. This was the episode where it can be construed it was said that Women are not permitted to be Starship Captains because they're psychologically fucked in the head.
Erika Hernandez must have screwed the pooch awesomely.
Erika Hernandez must have screwed the pooch awesomely.
Obviously 7 was
She has been an adult individual for 3 years. And no doubt 7 wouldn't be held back by societies norms on dating and mating, as she likely doesn't know them.
As for her "dating around," to me it goes back to the quality of people on Voyager. There wasn't an excess of quality men aboard to begin with...
In addition, she had a 6 year relationship with Axum in UZ, which even though it was in a virtual reality, was absolutely real to them. And she made that clear to Janeway at the end of UZ.
I dunno Tom Morello would have rocked her World.
Did she get those memories back? Because if she didn't then she might as well be talking about a past life experience for all the subconscious aid it gives her in making her continuing life choices.
I don't think we ever met Anika. The woman we know is just a personality the queen constructed to get a job done and defeat Janeway in the process, allowed to grow well past it's original definitions. Which honestly makes her as unreal as the Doctor if she's just a story written by some one else confined to those boundaries.
I don't think we ever met Anika. The woman we know is just a personality the queen constructed to get a job done and defeat Janeway in the process, allowed to grow well past it's original definitions. Which honestly makes her as unreal as the Doctor if she's just a story written by some one else confined to those boundaries.
Endgame is a good episode of Voyager. It is not a great episode though.
As we all know the ending is far, far too rushed. Frankly, it's poorly directed and edited as well. This may be my own personal hangup, but the last scene of the bridge is terrible. Its just an closeup of Janeway.
Where is the cool pull back, or a final lingering shot of the bridge? Think of the last shot of TNG (above the poker table) or DS9 ( the long pullback from the station). We don't even get a final shot of Chakotay, Tuvok or Seven. There is (potentially) a wonderful moment of Chakotay taking over the helm from Paris, but we cutaway almost immediately.
I can forgive quite a lot, but give each of our characters a moment for crying out loud. We spent 7 years watching the f*cking thing.
Oh, and while I'm on the subject, I don't like the final musical cue either.
As we all know the ending is far, far too rushed. Frankly, it's poorly directed and edited as well. This may be my own personal hangup, but the last scene of the bridge is terrible. Its just an closeup of Janeway.
Where is the cool pull back, or a final lingering shot of the bridge? Think of the last shot of TNG (above the poker table) or DS9 ( the long pullback from the station). We don't even get a final shot of Chakotay, Tuvok or Seven. There is (potentially) a wonderful moment of Chakotay taking over the helm from Paris, but we cutaway almost immediately.
I can forgive quite a lot, but give each of our characters a moment for crying out loud. We spent 7 years watching the f*cking thing.
Oh, and while I'm on the subject, I don't like the final musical cue either.
She made it clear she remembered it by the end of the 2nd part of UZ.
Annika no longer exists. Annika was a child who was assimilated. She will never be Annika again.
Seven is a combination of Annika, the cybernetic and genetic manipulation that's part of the assimilation, and the experiences she had after being separated from the Collective. She is every bit as much an individual as anyone else on Voyager.
Endgame was a good finale for Voyager. It excelled at everything that Voyager excelled at, mostly action-oriented, time travel, and the Borg. In comparison to the other finales, it is weaker, yes. But for Voyager, it was good.
And I was never bothered by the fact that we never got to see a reunion. I don't think a two-hour timespan would really do it justice. The only think I wished was that we could have had a longer, lingering shot of Voyager going towards Earth at the end there.
And I was never bothered by the fact that we never got to see a reunion. I don't think a two-hour timespan would really do it justice. The only think I wished was that we could have had a longer, lingering shot of Voyager going towards Earth at the end there.
There are parts of her that do exist... She loves strawberries
There are parts of her that do exist... She loves strawberries
How about that? Neelix had to teach her how to eat like she never ate before in her life...I found that odd.
I think memories of Annika exist in Seven.
"Red."
"The child you spoke of, her favorite color was red."
Just because Annika's not there doesn't mean her memories may not be.
"Red."
"The child you spoke of, her favorite color was red."
Just because Annika's not there doesn't mean her memories may not be.
I think that Annika is still in there somewhere... She has just been molded by her experiences, like all of us.
I really don't think Seven remembers the six years with Axum--and she doesn't say that she does. She says what she felt with him was real. IMHO, what she remembers is the "reconnection" she's made with Axum, which may or may not be as strong as it was while she was still a drone. What's real is that kiss and grope she had while UZ was falling apart around her. Even if she does remember those six years, what they had was hardly a "real" relationship, as we know it, since they only saw each other now and then and in an artificial environment. It included none of the compromise and struggle that living together in real life would demand and so would be of very little value in preparing her for a long-term bond.
And the ickiness of C/7 is more than the 20 year difference in age and Seven's lack of readiness for a serious relationship. The ickiness, for me, is the awful dialogue, the wooden performances, and the fact that both people are totally out of character. It's painful to watch them together--its just too much of an adolescent farce. Add to that the fact that, other than their physical attractiveness, they have absolutely nothing in common. C/7 was clearly a plot device to make sure that Seven had some screen time--another example of the way that the Seven-focus of the last last few seasons damaged the balance of the series. IMHO.
I think KimC makes good points. What was Admiral Janeway's real motivation? It had to be something more than what we saw. Why did it happen when it did? Why the Borg again, when there were other species that were new and interesting (I'm thinking of the Vaaduar and their subspace tunnels). If they decide to let Voyager get home, the happy ending, why not make it really happy and get J/C together and 7/EMH together, since those were the relationships that had been explored. Otherwise, why not have them end up back in the DQ?
That said, I do think "Endgame" was the best finale--if you fast forward through the totally unnecessary C/7 scenes. TOS really didn't have one. TNG was more of a set-up for the movie "Generations." DS9 was just too much of the Bajoran religion stuff, and why kill off Sisko? Ugh. And ENT? Well, ENT had a second TNG finale, if you ask me.
It was every time they regenerate. And that artificial environment was absolutely real to them.
As for being ready for a long-term bond, Seven's made it abundantly clear over the previous 4 years that she is capable of long-term friendships, hasn't she?
An eight-year-old can have friendships lasting longer than three years. That doesn't mean he/she is ready for an intimate relationship with someone twenty years older...
An 8 year-old doesn't have long term friendships with adults.
Look, I'm simply pointing out that I'm loathe to declare that someone's relationship is less real than someone else's. I can accept that that people dislike C/7 because they found it rushed, that they feel the characters have nothing in common, that they feel the characters are too alike in personality, that they saw no chemistry between the actors--and hey, even to argue that a 20 year difference in age is "icky."
But to argue that Seven is a mere child incapable of adult relationships is simply ignoring how the character behaved and grew over the prior four years.
I'm not denying she grew. What I'm saying is that she still had some more to do before she would be ready. IMO, that doesn't make her deficient in any way. For Pete's sake, she was assimilated at a young age then spent four years with a lost crew before finally making it back to her home world and you're expecting her to be a fully-realized adult? Cut her some slack!
I'm not denying she grew. What I'm saying is that she still had some more to do before she would be ready. IMO, that doesn't make her deficient in any way. For Pete's sake, she was assimilated at a young age then spent four years with a lost crew before finally making it back to her home world and you're expecting her to be a fully-realized adult? Cut her some slack!
I'm just seeing her as she was presented on the show.
And really... are *any* of us "fully-realized adults"? Each person has his or her strengths and weaknesses based on what we've experienced over the course of our lifetimes. I daresay there are areas where you have more life experience than I and vice versa. For that matter, I know kids with more life experience in some areas than I have.
