Electoral College: Closer to being gone than you think

[ichab]

It's hard to argue that Trump and the most recent election is not relevant to this topic,

Trump's election as it pertains to the electoral college? Absolutely! Trumps policies and your personal feelings about him? Not even close. If you can't tell the difference then you really shouldn't be a moderator.

and if you must know, it was Refuge who first brought Trump up and kept harping on about the Clintons and Obama. People were simply responding to her remarks.

https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/ele...ne-than-you-think.287691/page-3#post-12014186
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/ele...ne-than-you-think.287691/page-3#post-12014521

Yes and as a moderator you could have politely reminded him that this thread is about the electoral college system itself which by the way, was going along just fine and staying on topic before that hijack.

Now do you or Refuge have ANYTHING to contribute to the actual article that this thread is based on? If you don't then kindly see yourselves out.

 

[MacLeod]

Trying to get back on topic,

The reason why it has come up is down to the fact that twice within 16 years there has been a result where cadidate A won the EC but candiadte B received more votes than cadidate A.

So those who support candidate A might be less likely to want to change the system so that the candidate with the most over votes wins the Presidency. The question is would their views change if it was their candidate that recieved more votes but lost the EC?

 

[Spot261]

Trump's election as it pertains to the electoral college? Absolutely! Trumps policies and your personal feelings about him? Not even close. If you can't tell the difference then you really shouldn't be a moderator.

Or questions about the nature of the system and it's potential vulnerability to certain forms of election platform, particularly populist ones which may or may not disproportionately attract or deter particular voting demographics.

You could have politely reminded him

her

If you don't then kindly see yourselves out.

Don't think you have that particular privilege

 

[ichab]

Trying to get back on topic,

The reason why it has come up is down to the fact that twice within 16 years there has been a result where cadidate A won the EC but candiadte B received more votes than cadidate A.

So those who support candidate A might be less likely to want to change the system so that the candidate with the most over votes wins the Presidency. The question is would their views change if it was their candidate that recieved more votes but lost the EC?

I have no doubt that the partisan attitudes of both sides would be different had Gore and Clinton benefitted from it instead of Bush and Trump. I think it needs to go regardless because

1.It runs contrary to a true republic
2. As we are seeing again,the second place finisher in the popular vote faces so many questions of legitimacy in the eyes of the public that getting consensus on anything is impossible.

And seriously, THANK YOU for trying to put this thread back on the right track.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

President Deferment J. Bonespurs

 

[RJDiogenes]

So those who support candidate A might be less likely to want to change the system so that the candidate with the most over votes wins the Presidency. The question is would their views change if it was their candidate that recieved more votes but lost the EC?

I don't think there's any question there. Hypocrisy is a fundamental component of ideology.

Voting reform is all about ensuring that everybody's vote counts, increasing participation in the process, promoting more qualified candidates, raising the level of public discourse, and eliminating-- or at least minimizing-- the childish extremism so endemic to the current political climate. The fact that the flaws in the Electoral College have given us two lowbrow simpletons as leader of the free world in less than twenty years just presents us with opportunities to popularize the concept.

 

[Doom Shepherd]

Captain Dumbass has spoken.

 

[ichab]

Captain Dumbass has spoken.

Of course he was against it before he was for it.

I'm curious why he mentioned it then. Obama won both Popular and Electoral pretty handily.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Of course he was against it before he was for it.

I'm curious why he mentioned it then. Obama won both Popular and Electoral pretty handily.

Because at the time Trump made his furious tweetstorm Obama had just secured the necessary 270 electoral votes to win but Romney still had a slight edge in the popular vote, even though Obama went on to win the popular vote as well once the more populous states were all done being tallied.


http://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-trump-calls-electoral-college-a-disaster-during-2012-tweetstorm/

Trump’s attitude toward the Electoral College appears to have shifted.

On Tuesday morning, the president-elect tweeted, “The Electoral College is actually genius in that it brings all states, including the smaller ones, into play. Campaigning is much different!”

Trump won the Electoral College, 289 to 228, but Hillary Clinton is winning the popular vote — leading by more than 670,700 votes. Only three other times in American history has a candidate won the Electoral College — and the presidency — despite losing the popular vote.

In a 2012 Twitter post, Trump called the Electoral College “a disaster for a democracy.”

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 7, 2012
House of Representatives shouldn't give anything to Obama unless he terminates Obamacare.

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 7, 2012
Hopefully the House of Representatives can hold our country together for four more years...stay strong and never give up!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 7, 2012
This election is a total sham and a travesty. We are not a democracy!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 7, 2012
The electoral college is a disaster for a democracy.

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 7, 2012
Our country is now in serious and unprecedented trouble...like never before.

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 7, 2012
Lets fight like hell and stop this great and disgusting injustice! The world is laughing at us.

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 7, 2012
We can't let this happen. We should march on Washington and stop this travesty. Our nation is totally divided!

In several tweets he later deleted, Trump wondered how Obama won even though Republican nominee Mitt Romney had more votes (though in the end, Obama won the popular vote as well).

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 7, 2012
“He lost the popular vote by a lot and won the election,” Trump tweeted. “We should have a revolution in this country!”


One of the side effects of the Donald Trump twitter obsession is that there is literally almost no situation or scenario he hasn't previously contradicted himself on in an archived tweet. There were at least a dozen from his Saudi trip a few days ago alone.

 

[B.J.]

It is possible for people to change their minds over time. But I wouldn't go that far in Trump's case. It seems he only "changes his mind" if it benefits him personally. (Same can be said for many politicians, but him in particular.)

 

[fireproof78]

It is possible for people to change their minds over time. But I wouldn't go that far in Trump's case. It seems he only "changes his mind" if it benefits him personally. (Same can be said for many politicians, but him in particular.)

I was about to sound that it sounded like a pretty standard politician to me (and humans in general).

 

[wew]

Except she won the popular vote by almost 3 million. Besides many business people are just as corrupt as Politicians. And a creep is someone who boasts about grabbing people's private parts.

That is true, and as Trump noted, vote differential was essentially related to the results in California. I'm not sure, but that has to be by one of the greatest margins of victory in an popular voted in any state during a presidential election.

And no, just because I generally vote Republican, this election I voted Republican except for Donald Trump, voted for Johnson instead.

 

[ichab]

That is true, and as Trump noted, vote differential was essentially related to the results in California. I'm not sure, but that has to be by one of the greatest margins of victory in an popular voted in any state during a presidential election.

It's not that surprising when you consider that California is a very expensive state to advertise in and not worth the investment to campaign when you're 7 to 10 points behind in the largest populated state from the start just based on party affiliation. A Republican candidate would make better use of time and money in swing states that are actually within reach. One of many reasons why the charge "she got more popular votes" is irrelevant so long as the electoral college is the system used and one the candidates are basing their entire campaign strategy on.

And no, just because I generally vote Republican, this election I voted Republican except for Donald Trump, voted for Johnson instead.

I left it blank and will probably do the same in four years if Trump survives.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

I was about to sound that it sounded like a pretty standard politician to me (and humans in general).

No. The scope of Trump's lies, reversals, and hypocrisies are virtually unprecedented among candidates and office holders. He lies for no reason, he holds no convictions, and he's not even knowledgeable enough about the issues to make an informed decision if he ever did stand for anything. You can't afford to keep normalizing him and giving him chance after chance.


http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...ing-hillary-clinton-donald-trump-truth-o-met/

His whole champion of the common man shtick was a crock, as his new (poorly calculated to the tune of being off by two trillion dollars) budget deliberately targets the very people who put him into office; the poor and lower middle class whites without college educations, by cutting the food stamps, Medicaid, disability, and pensions many of them depend on. He's cutting cancer programs, he's cutting food programs for children and the elderly. He said people would still support him if he killed someone on the street? Well these budget cuts, had they come to pass, would kill tens of thousands of poor people who depend on these programs to survive, and yet people still support him and make excuses for him against their own self-interest. It's baffling.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/23/politics/trump-budget-cuts-programs/

 

[Refuge]

Yet he is still President thanks to the Electoral College, which is still the system as per the topic of this OP.

Life is good

 

[Manticore]

Yet he is still President thanks to the Electoral College, which is still the system as per the topic of this OP.

Life is good

If you're not poor.
Or care about the integrity of our intelligence services.
Or our relationship with our allies.
Or you're LGBT.
Or you have medical conditions.
Or want a president who isn't a disgusting creep, an abject and repeated failure, and has the intelligence of a used sock.

 

[Refuge]

Or if you are a bad loser who backed another loser?

The Electoral College is the topic thread. It is the system.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

If you're not poor.
Or care about the integrity of our intelligence services.
Or our relationship with our allies.
Or you're LGBT.
Or you have medical conditions.
Or want a president who isn't a disgusting creep, an abject and repeated failure, and has the intelligence of a used sock.

Or are concerned about the role model the President sets for the younger generations, e.g. encouraging them to grow up thinking that it's actually OK to just grab women by the pussy.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Or if you are a bad loser who backed another loser?

The Electoral College is the topic thread. It is the system.

Infraction for trolling. Comments to PM.

You've been monopolizing, mini-modding, and pushing buttons in threads near constantly since you started. If someone in the course of the discussion brings up a falsehood about Trump, it's perfectly fine and on-topic to respond to it. That's how message board discussions work. Quit trying to control everything.

 

[Manticore]

Or if you are a bad loser who backed another loser?

The Electoral College is the topic thread. It is the system.

See: the Republican party after Obama won (both popular vote and the electoral college, twice).

You cannot separate Trump's pitiful win from the topic at hand; they're inextricably linked. Also, how come you get to comment on Trump's presidency but I can't?