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Electoral College: Closer to being gone than you think

This doesn't change the fact that with the current system votes aren't equally weighted.
The EC's makeup equals the House. Votes in the House don't always reflect the desires of the constituency, either.

Regardless, the system was put in place for a reason. If you don't like it, lobby your Representative in Congress to propose an amendment to the Constitution to do away with the Electoral College. Bitching about it here is like a wish sandwich.

But you know all that.
 
The EC's makeup equals the House. Votes in the House don't always reflect the desires of the constituency, either.
That's not true. The EC's makeup equals the number of Congresspeople, House plus Senate. In other words, the number of electors for each state is its number of representatives in the House of Representatives, plus two. That's exactly how it weighs votes in less populous states more heavily than other votes.
 
Reminds me of how Trump's enemies have gone after his children and his wife.
It takes a remarkable lack of self-awareness and thoughtfulness and/or extreme hypocrisy to make this comment and then follow it up by going after a wife that sticks with her cheating husband and saying she is "shaming women everywhere" in the very next sentence. Really, a perfect 10.0 for the mental gymnastics there.

What have people gone after Melania for that was so harsh? Plagiarizing Michelle Obama's DNC speech was about the harshest criticism she got from mainstream sources, and much of that was leveled at the writers, not her. Should I post some of the horrendous racist and sexist shit that's been flung at Michelle Obama over the years by mainstream conservative sources?

Trump's elder three children were directly involved in lying and making racist, sexist, and xenophobic remarks during his campaign, and they continue to be involved in his corrupt tax-evading and contract-breaking business practices. The two elder sons are poachers of endangered animals. Ivanka is a White House employee using her position to unethically and possibly illegally leverage her connections to promote her own and her family's businesses. His adult children are political and business operatives and are fair game for criticism, and that's before I even get into the nepotism violations of giving his son-in-law half the jobs in the White House, corrupt pay-for-play trading by Trump's sister-in-law, and favoring dictatorships in foreign policy decisions purely because Trump owns hotels and casinos in their countries which the children keep taking meetings and making deals about.

Hillary shamed women everywhere by standing by Bill. She did it so she could one day have a chance to run for President.
You're a woman who is an apologist for a sexual assaulting, white supremacist courting, tax-evading, employee and contractor and student thieving, treasonous, adulterous, racist, sexist, transphobic, lying, warmongering, sociopathic, fascist-loving, banana republic imitating, low-information moron who you helped elevate to the highest office in the land and continue to make excuses for as he preceded to do all the corrupt and illegal things everyone knew he would do and even openly bragged about in many cases.

Trump flat out said his supporters would stick with him even if he murdered someone in the street. That's not a compliment on his part. Where's your shame? You (luckily) don't even have a preexisting decades long relationship with the man to pressure you to continue to support him. What's it gonna take for you to finally feel some shame and do something about the scumbag you helped put in the White House?

She lost.
No shit. What's your point?
 
I didn't say it wasn't written to you. I said it wasn't written for you. The likelihood of engaging in constructive conversation with you was something I always recognized as low. You speak in stark hyper-partisan terms and twist the truth. Reading your posts is like watching Fox News. Odds were a conversation with you would go nowhere, so there was never an undertaking on my part to post for your benefit. That would have been foolish. The only thing constructive here is just making sure it's on the record that I think you're wrong. Mission accomplished.
I suppose you are right I didn't read you as being interested in providing any kind of constructive dialogue with me either. I just thought it was odd that you said I don't give a fuck what you believe when you clearly did.
 
I
It takes a remarkable lack of self-awareness and thoughtfulness and/or extreme hypocrisy to make this comment and then follow it up by going after a wife that sticks with her cheating husband and saying she is "shaming women everywhere" in the very next sentence. Really, a perfect 10.0 for the mental gymnastics there.

What have people gone after Melania for that was so harsh? Plagiarizing Michelle Obama's DNC speech was about the harshest criticism she got from mainstream sources, and much of that was leveled at the writers, not her. Should I post some of the horrendous racist and sexist shit that's been flung at Michelle Obama over the years by mainstream conservative sources?

Trump's elder three children were directly involved in lying and making racist, sexist, and xenophobic remarks during his campaign, and they continue to be involved in his corrupt tax-evading and contract-breaking business practices. The two elder sons are poachers of endangered animals. Ivanka is a White House employee using her position to unethically and possibly illegally leverage her connections to promote her own and her family's businesses. His adult children are political and business operatives and are fair game for criticism, and that's before I even get into the nepotism violations of giving his son-in-law half the jobs in the White House, corrupt pay-for-play trading by Trump's sister-in-law, and favoring dictatorships in foreign policy decisions purely because Trump owns hotels and casinos in their countries which the children keep taking meetings and making deals about.


You're a woman who is an apologist for a sexual assaulting, white supremacist courting, tax-evading, employee and contractor and student thieving, treasonous, adulterous, racist, sexist, transphobic, lying, warmongering, sociopathic, fascist-loving, banana republic imitating, low-information moron who you helped elevate to the highest office in the land and continue to make excuses for as he preceded to do all the corrupt and illegal things everyone knew he would do and even openly bragged about in many cases.

Trump flat out said his supporters would stick with him even if he murdered someone in the street. That's not a compliment on his part. Where's your shame? You (luckily) don't even have a preexisting decades long relationship with the man to pressure you to continue to support him. What's it gonna take for you to finally feel some shame and do something about the scumbag you helped put in the White House?


No shit. What's your point?
I was thinking of Trump's daughter sitting at the fashion show being ridiculed online by the editor because no one would sit next to her. Very mean girl I know.. hardly worth any sympathy, it's not like she was labelled autistic, that would be below the belt surely? Do you seriously believe Trump and his family are not targets for some pretty vile commentary? Is that within his enemies capabilities?

By the way I didn't know about the hunting of endangered animals and I think that is despicable, I would never support that and have never supported any slurring of Obama or his family because of their race. I thought Obama was a stuffed shirt who let a lot of his electorate down but he seemed a nice enough person and his wife has smarts.

I think you are too harsh on Trump's supporters they are allowed to support him and clearly don't see him as you do. It surprises me how entitled to putting down millions of voters anti-Trump people are. I guess that cuts both ways.. Millions of your fellow citizens who voted Trump get lumped together and told to feel shame. That's silly.
 
I suppose you are right I didn't read you as being interested in providing any kind of constructive dialogue with me either. I just thought it was odd that you said I don't give a fuck what you believe when you clearly did.
There's no contradiction. Again, it was just a question of doing my part to set the record straight. That was the thing I cared most about.

By the way, I appreciate how @Locutus of Bored just did an excellent job of unraveling the non sequiturs you posted in reply to me, and a better job than I could have. I see that you've answered him with more disproportionate nonsense.

You and the people on your side would do well to understand that people on the other side care about their country at least as much as you do. They have to live in it, or at least with it, too, you know.

Sure, it would be nice not to live in such a hopelessly polarized environment; I care about that, too. However, if you think that twisting things around the way you've been doing in your posts is perfectly fine, then that's on you. I don't see that there's any middle ground to be had as long as that's going on, and I'm certainly not interested in compromising to find it.
 
Basically if I'm in Delaware or Rhode Island I would feel like my vote doesn't matter because New York and California would decide the elections.
People who are against removing the electoral college always make this argument when it's really not correct. There are a lot of Republican voters in New York and California whose votes are currently marginalized because they're outnumbered by the Democratic voters in the more populous urban areas. Under the current system, their votes mean nothing. Under a more representative popular election, their votes would matter far more. Nearly 4.5 million Californians voted for Trump in November, but that didn't matter because Clinton got 8.7 million votes, which meant she got all of that state's electoral votes even though she only carried 61% of the total votes.
 
That's not true. The EC's makeup equals the number of Congresspeople, House plus Senate. In other words, the number of electors for each state is its number of representatives in the House of Representatives, plus two. That's exactly how it weighs votes in less populous states more heavily than other votes.
Whoops, you're right. My bad.
 
The Electoral College has not changed so I don't understand why it is being made a scapegoat. Look to other countries in the world. At any given time in electorates that have more than two major parties, the party that actually wins has the governing margin. Might even get the highest popular vote of a single party. However, collectively votes to the opposition and minority parties might tally up as a bigger majority. That occurs.. a lot. Governments have to rule and if it happens that a minority of representation from actual voters who bothered to get out there and within an accepted system, carry the day... then yes, I believe the defined 'minority' of that population has earned that right. Until the next election.

But we aren't talking about how Governments are elected which is usually is one of two systems First past the post or Preferential voting we are debating the EC and how it relates to Presidential elections. So how many Presidents around the world can be elected where they receive fewer votes than another candidate?

And we haven't even touched on gerrymandering where by one party draws district lines so as to favour them and disadvantage their opposition at the legistlative level.
 
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People who are against removing the electoral college always make this argument when it's really not correct. There are a lot of Republican voters in New York and California whose votes are currently marginalized because they're outnumbered by the Democratic voters in the more populous urban areas. Under the current system, their votes mean nothing. Under a more representative popular election, their votes would matter far more. Nearly 4.5 million Californians voted for Trump in November, but that didn't matter because Clinton got 8.7 million votes, which meant she got all of that state's electoral votes even though she only carried 61% of the total votes.
Very true. I'm sure many voters from both parties sit it out because they have become SO wise to the process they say "He or she is going to win my state regardless of my vote. Why bother?"
All those non votes affect the state and local offices as well.
 
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I was thinking of Trump's daughter sitting at the fashion show being ridiculed online by the editor because no one would sit next to her. Very mean girl I know.. hardly worth any sympathy, it's not like she was labelled autistic, that would be below the belt surely? Do you seriously believe Trump and his family are not targets for some pretty vile commentary? Is that within his enemies capabilities
Were those attacks by mainstream media outlets? By opposition party candidates? Please provide examples. Because the attacks against Obama and Hillary certainly were.

President Trump has accused Obama of not being born in the US, of being a secret Muslim, of faking his university degrees, of sympathizing with terrorists, of founding ISIS... He's accused Hillary of being sickly and weak, of having dementia, of being a criminal, of being a traitor, of letting people die at Benghazi, of co-founding ISIS...
I would never support that and have never supported any slurring of Obama or his family because of their race.
You literally voted for and continue to support a President who attacked Obama based on his race. What do you think questioning his birthplace is about? And that's just Obama, I'm not even tallying up the hundreds of racist and sexist and xenophobic and ablest attacks he made on others before, during, and after the campaign.
I thought Obama was a stuffed shirt who let a lot of his electorate down...
Yeah, I got really tired of waking up to all of Obama's daily scandals. That time he disrespectfully wore a beige suit in the Oval Office. That time he saluted while holding a coffee. That time he arrogantly ordered dijon mustard on a sandwich. That time he shared a beer with a professor who thought the police should stop shooting so many unarmed black people. That time he dared to insinuate that people cling to guns and religion. His shameful use of a teleprompter. His terrorist fist bump with Michelle. When he treacherously didn't wear his flag pin on his lapel. When he bowed to the Saudis. Fox News got so much mileage out of those horrific acts.

It's so much better now living under the Trump regime, where nothing bad ever happens, and he'd never be an arrogant stuffed shirt. Like an elitist would literally live in a gilded penthouse in a gold tower with his name on it. Inconceivable!
I think you are too harsh on Trump's supporters they are allowed to support him and clearly don't see him as you do. It surprises me how entitled to putting down millions of voters anti-Trump people are. I guess that cuts both ways.. Millions of your fellow citizens who voted Trump get lumped together and told to feel shame. That's silly.
You get that I was turning your example back around on you, right? You said Hillary shamed all women by sticking with Bill. First off, since when is the standard conservative position to abandon your marriage when your husband cheats? Mike Huckabee has some 'splainin to do to the child molesting Duggar family son about the advice he gave his wife then. Second, you continue to support Trump, who has done all the things Bill has done and more, and who regularly mistreats women through his personal and political actions. Physician, heal thyself.
 
That time he arrogantly ordered dijon mustard on a sandwich.
Man, I didn't know this was a thing, but a quick Google search reveals it was. How petty!

At least I finally understand why I've always felt like a soul brother to Barack: I like Dijon mustard on my cheeseburger, too! I feel better now that I've come out about that.

Thanks, Obama! (And thanks, @Locutus of Bored!)
 
I get that you have a closed mind, that is all that came through from that.
I haven't been in to see Dr. Quato for my therapy session this week.

BRlF48U.gif
 
To be fair clamping down on LGBTQ rights, stripping away healthcare for the poorest most vulnerable people, closing national borders to people who happen to come from certain countries with no objective evidence those countries are actually a threat (despite making allowances for other countries with a well documented history of terrorism but happen to have Trump hotels) and trying to build a wall costing a literally unmitigated amount of money to cut a non existent immigration problem all pales in comparison to forgetting to salute a marine when boarding a helicopter.
 
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