Eddington's vitriolic assessment of The Federation

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by Ragitsu, May 10, 2022.

  1. Ragitsu

    Ragitsu Captain Captain

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    How are the people on typical Federation worlds/space habitats living with "no purpose"? Also, I would counter that luxury is relative; the twenty-fourth century standard of living is luxurious to us, yes, but ordinary to them. People of the future would observe our milieu - struggling to put food on the table and going bankrupt over necessaries surgeries - and deem our existence "barbaric" or "brutal"...perhaps "exploitative".
     
  2. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I feel like you either believe people would put accomplishment over comfort or you don't.
     
  3. Ragitsu

    Ragitsu Captain Captain

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    You don't need to colonize a planet to improve or enrich yourself.

     
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  4. Watersluis

    Watersluis Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I asked whether you had actually done what I asked, not whether you find the idea appealing.
     
  5. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That is not a choice that needs to be made. Not now, and not in the Federation. ("Luxury" has connotations that don't necessarily always apply to Federation citizens, but I assume we're talking about comfort as opposed to ostentatious wealth.)
     
  6. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm mostly commenting on the fact that I think there would be no end of people who would go to the colonies in the Federation to build a new life away from the luxury and security of the Federation.
     
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  7. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Some, sure. But the choice to do that is part of the freedom that comes with being a Federation citizen.
     
  8. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Am I the only one on this forum who actually like Michael Eddington?

    In fact, I think he was doing the right thing. I left Starfleet to become a Freedom Fighter when his home colony was threatened and the colonists attacked by the Cardassians.

    I can undertstand him in many ways.

    I also think that he had some points when it came to his criticism of The Federation even if I actually like the way the Federation is functioning and it's laws, including the Prime Directive.

    But I must admit that The federation actually acted shamefully when the abandoned those colonies and its inhabitants. Not to mention that the Cardassians did thank The federation by joining the Dominion and declare war against the Federation later on.
     
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  9. Timelord Victorious

    Timelord Victorious Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The federation signed a mutually agreed peace contract which included compromises.
    Did they like those compromises? Not much, but that’s the nature of a compromise. You grind your teeth and make the best of it.
    The moment Cardassia decided, to start a new war and break the contract, I don’t think the Federation kept abiding to the compromises anymore. But they wouldn’t and couldn’t break it first.
     
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  10. danellis

    danellis Captain Captain

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    The colonies didn't have any self-determination for the Federation to interfere with. They were first a possession of the Federation, then later a possession of the Cardassian Union

    How did the Cardassians break the peace? I thought that was the USS Sutherland (which Picard managed to smooth over) and later the Maquis?

    When and how was that?

    Probably more so: he took it very personally, so if the betrayal was by someone closer to him, he probably would have felt the resulting anger more fully.

    I thought that was Eaves' personal collection. there are at least two of the Enterprise-A, plus the Eaglemoss versions.

    I think she's saying that they're "racially" Federation citizens (of whatever species or skin colour), and as such are "superior" to other species such as Cardassians, Ferengi, or Klingons.

    My limited understanding the real-world process is that they would be overseas possessions of the state the colonists came from until they secede from that state

    The lands of north America were variously English, French and Spanish until they (at various points nd methods) became what is now the United States.

    I think good real world analogies might be Guam for the US or the Falkland Islands for the UK. While largely self-governing on a day-to-day basis, they are overseas possessions of the respective countries. The US might secede possession of Guam to Australia in the peace process after a hypothetical conflict between the two; the circumstances would decide what, if any, say the population of Guam might have in the matter.

    A lot of this story does remind me a European attitudes splitting up the middle-east in the wake of WWI; including Nechayez's assumption of racial superiority. I don't know how deliberate this was on the part of the writers, or whether it was mimicing prevaliing US values at the time.

    dJE
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2022 at 6:11 PM
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  11. danellis

    danellis Captain Captain

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    I seem to remember it being at least hinted that the Federation took possession of Cardassian colonies in the treaty as well (I presume, the intention was to regularise the border, rather than have the confusion of Cardassian land that would otherwise be deep within Federation territory - or the reverse).

    dJE
     
  12. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yes, it's explicitly stated that both Cardassian worlds and Federation worlds were impacted by the treaty.

    As to the question of whether the Maquis were Federation citizens, to me the easiest explanation is that it was people who were not colonists but were joining or supporting the Maquis while still Federation citizens, in addition to those colonists who took up the cause.

    Ro Laren, for instance, would have been a Federation citizen at the time when she started assisting the Maquis.
     
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  13. valkyrie013

    valkyrie013 Commodore Commodore

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    Middle East is a good take on it.
    After WW1 had some random British people draw random lines on a map. Never taking into account tribal lands, ethnic borders, natural borders etc. With zero input of the residents.

    Alot if the violence in the M E was caused by those borders, ethnic and tribal conflict within a country that are somewhat forced to get along.

    I would think that like say Jihad brides that go over would automatically loose there citizenship.
     
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  14. Ragitsu

    Ragitsu Captain Captain

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    It should be noted that "braving the frontier" is much easier when you have matter replicators, portable fusion (or better) reactors, futuristic medicine, interstellar communication, phasers and the like.
     
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  15. trekshark

    trekshark Captain Captain

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    is it so different from people risking weeks long trips be sea to colonize North America or Australia 200-100 years ago? There are people that decide to "quit" modern society and go live in the woods in a cabin. Maybe not your extreme example of moving to the sahara but people do still voluntarily choose to live a more "primitive" or harder lifestyle.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2022 at 12:16 AM
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  16. Watersluis

    Watersluis Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Those that did so were paid handsomely by their employees to find gold and “trade” with the local population.
    In that sense it is not much different from working on a drilling platform. I doubt they would have done so to live there of the land away from civilization for no financial compensation.
     
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  17. Ragitsu

    Ragitsu Captain Captain

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    I would be curious to find out how many of them make do without any provisions which require an industrial base (artificially generated electricity, at the minimum) to manufacture as opposed to those that live a hermetic lifestyle but with modern day luxuries to make the experience somewhat bearable. Primitive medicine sucks.
     
  18. Unicron

    Unicron Boss Monster Mod Moderator

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    The FASA Trekverse assumed that many Federation worlds were associate (and not full) members, meaning they didn't have full responsibilities and representation on the Federation Council but did enjoy protection from Starfleet against hostile nations and other benefits like trade. The option to become full members was available if the governments of those worlds wanted to pursue it.

    There were also some colonies in the Triangle (where the borders of Fed, Klingon and Romulan space intersected) composed of humans and other Federation species, some of whom were independent governments that would occasionally ally with Federation interests or assist Starfleet directly. One world was populated by humans whose ship had crashed during the Romulan War and decided to make a living there.

    FASA also had a module where the Organians allowed the Klingons and the Federation to both place settlers on Sherman's World, with the proviso that neither group could be directly influenced by its respective government. When the probationary period expired, the world could vote on which side it wanted to formally join.