But... but... people keep telling me that being faithful to the novel doesn't matter because Villeneuve is apparently some kind of cinematic god!
Dune Part 2 2023 (24, 25, 26...)
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I mean, whether it matters or not is not my point. Just an observation on my second viewing.
@fireproof78: I'm just snarking a bit due to the double standard of people jumping on me if I complain that something wasn't accurate to the novel.
I've yet to see any version of Dune where the Sardaukar and Harkonnen uniforms don't look ridiculous, but yeah, it's a pretty emphatic plot point in the novel that the Sardaukar are supposed to wear Harkonnen uniforms so the Emperor can deny any involvement with trying to bring down such a prominent major House (and one he's related to, as well).
I've yet to see any version of Dune where the Sardaukar and Harkonnen uniforms don't look ridiculous, but yeah, it's a pretty emphatic plot point in the novel that the Sardaukar are supposed to wear Harkonnen uniforms so the Emperor can deny any involvement with trying to bring down such a prominent major House (and one he's related to, as well).
I would not mind seeing some more classical military stylings for both Harkonnen and Sardaukar. The Atreides uniforms always have a sleek look to them. It's very clean. The others?
Well, we all have our thing.
Not sleek, not clean. It's as though there's some unwritten rule that for all TV/movie productions of Dune, both the Sardaukar/Harkonnens and the Bene Gesserit costumes have to look as ridiculous as possible.
The only exception I make with this is most of Irulan's outfits (at least in the Lynch movie and the miniseries). The Lynch costumes she wore were over-the-top for everyday wear, but we only saw Irulan in formal court situations, where of course she would wear her most elaborate garb.
I have no words for the Butterfly Dress other than a lolpic I made many years ago, that was captioned to say that Irulan had always wanted to be a lepidopterist instead of a princess, so she really liked to wear butterflies.
Otherwise, her miniseries outfits weren't really that weird. Most are less weird than stuff the younger generations of the British Royal Family wears.
But what is Villeneuve's obsession with women wearing doilies on their heads? It looks ridiculous.
He likes crochet. Trying to start a trend.
Fashions of other eras or religions can look ridiculous to those accustomed to the fashion of a different era or religion. The wearing of such veils or head adornments might be a practise sanctioned by the dominant religion of the Landsraad, which is possibly named either Orange Catholicism or Koranjiyana Zenchristian, going by the various alternative names of its holy writings. (This name was probably a joke by Frank Herbert, who was raised as a Roman Catholic.) It is not the only religion of the Dune universe, however. Later novels reveal that Judaism is still practised. The Fremen religion is Zensunni - a blend of Zen Buddhism and Sunni Islam. The Bene Gesserit appear to be cynically agnostic. The sisterhood uses religion as a tool to manipulate human populations to achieve their goals, so they might adopt elaborate head dresses to set themselves apart. I guess it's possible that such head gear might include sensors to enhance perception. Only thinking machines are banned, and the Ixians and Richesians seem to be adept at bending the rules in the technology that they sell. Perhaps Villeneuve has explained or will explain the costume design philosophy.
I knew most of this, thanks. I didn't know about the Zenchristian thing.
The Bene Gesserit appear to get a bit mystical in a spiritual sense once you get to the Heretics/Chapterhouse books, or at least they fake it well when dealing with the Tleilaxu and the religion of the Divided God.
In the novel, Herbert describes the usual garb of the Bene Gesserit as a "black aba robe" and even Alia had her own miniature version when she was a child. But what else, when she was born with the adult consciousness and abilities of a Reverend Mother?
If Villeneuve goes ahead with Dune Messiah and Children of Dune, he had better make it clear what a horrible mother Jessica was to Alia.
Regarding Irulan's decadent, extremely overdone throne room outfit in the Lynch movie, I explained to the guys on the old Arrakeen forum why that costume made sense. I'm sure Lynch was going for a Byzantine motif with the Imperial faction - everything elaborate, impractical, and dripping with gold and other precious metals and gems. Irulan could wear a dress like that because as Shaddam's eldest daughter and heir, she had plenty of servants to do the practical things for her. All she had to do for herself was be able to walk and speak and be decorative. She didn't have to worry about how to move in that getup if she had to do any practical actions.
Perhaps Villeneuve's choice of a brutalist, minimalist, almost Scandinavian, aesthetic for the dwellings of the wealthy elites in his version of Dune is a reaction to Lynch's version? Honestly, I have little preference. Like most SF universes, I doubt that Dune is a credible vision of a possible future, leaving aside the fact that detailed genetic memory and other pseudo-scientific elements that underpin the novel series aren't real. Primarily, it's a fictional construct designed to convey somewhat subversive ideas about the influence of religion and politics on human populations when such mindsets are promoted by charismatic, messianic leaders. Villeneuve understands this; Lynch didn't appear to. Whether Villeneuve can successfully convey this message to the audience remains to be seen. Some reaction videos suggest that not all viewers get that it's the antithesis of a "chosen one" narrative.
Now if only someone would take on Herbert's "Destination: Void" series (aka "Pandora Sequence" or "WorShip"), which tackles AI and religion.
Now if only someone would take on Herbert's "Destination: Void" series (aka "Pandora Sequence" or "WorShip"), which tackles AI and religion.
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Lynch used local artisans when constructing some of the sets (the movie was filmed in Mexico). The detail in Castle Caladan and the ducal residence at Arrakeen was incredible. They actually looked like livable places, rather than utilitarian set designs.
Can't say the same for the rest of the sets, though. The miniseries did a better job of showing the Fremen living quarters in the sietch, but apparently every character had the exact same model of bed. I'd suggest they took turns using the only one they had, except that Irulan hid in her bed while Chani was giving birth in another one (this was at the end of part 1 of Children of Dune when Alia sent Stilgar and some of the trustworthy Fremen to deal with those involved in the plot against Paul; Paul had given orders that Irulan not be harmed, and she was smart enough to keep out of the way).
There were some pretty basic things Lynch didn't understand about Dune, and the major whopper was when he had it rain at the end. That was a jaw-dropping moment when watching it in the theatre, not from awe at Paul's superduper powers, but from the stupidity of the scriptwriter/director. The Fremen shouldn't have been happy about the rain. They should have gone after Paul and executed him for killing the worms and the spice cycle just for the sake of showing off.
Yep. There are so many people who think that the protagonist must be a "good guy" or a "hero". All the protagonist is, is the main character, who can be good, morally grey, or an outright villain (of course a well-written villain never considers himself a villain and has what he sees as a perfectly reasonable motive for doing what he does).
Then there's that nonsense about how wonderful Leto is at fatherhood when he essentially tells Paul that it's okay if he doesn't become Duke, as he'll always be "my son". That's not how dynastic royalty raise their children, especially when they only have the one heir (he didn't know about Alia).
That is one the most striking aspects about Dune. There is no good guys in the story. There are protagonists and antagonists but no one is good.
Interesting movie.
Oh, and a wonderful game it is too, if you've got the balls for it.
I'd argue that Duncan Idaho is good, at least in Dune. He's also a good guy in Heretics of Dune.
It disturbs me a bit that he married 16-year-old Alia, however. No matter that she had multiple lifetimes stored up in Other Memory, she only had 16 years' worth of personal experiences and a neglectful mother who scampered back to Caladan at the earliest opportunity, abandoning her 4-year-old daughter to be raised by Paul, Stilgar, and Harah - none of whom knew how to deal with someone who was Pre-Born.
You're thinking of croquet.
He is the closest. In a world like Dune that is sufficient, I suppose, if damning with faint praise.
I can't think of anything he did in Dune that was objectionable, unless you want to count getting drunk on spice beer and calling Jessica a "damn Harkonnen spy". But since that's what he was supposed to think, I can't really blame him for it. At least he didn't try to kill her, like Gurney nearly did.
Duncan wasn't himself throughout most of Dune Messiah, as his true memories hadn't been awakened yet. I don't want to blame Duncan for objectionable actions taken by his ghola persona, Hayt.
Children of Dune, as mentioned, is problematic. It just seems wrong for him to have married Alia, and then his attempts to redeem his honor... I'm going to have to reread that, to see if I'm remembering it correctly.
God Emperor of Dune... yikes. Yes, it's understandable that he's confused, upset, grieving, and bewildered to suddenly wake up to a bizarre world that's 3000 years later, when everyone he knew is dead and yet he feels a compulsion to serve Leto II just because he's an Atreides. People have criticized him in this novel because of his disapproval of same-sex relationships among the Fish Speakers. Was that really Duncan's attitude, or was Frank Herbert using Duncan to express his own disapproval?
Heretics' Duncan is a teenager and most of his actions aren't his own - he's somewhat controlled by the Bene Gesserit (he states that he has no intention of mating with Sheeana as the BG want), and the Honored Matres attempt to control him as well.
And then in Chapterhouse... I still don't understand parts of that novel, even with the number of times I've read and discussed it on Dune forums. Being held prisoner in a no-ship for however many years, constantly under Bene Gesserit observation, would be a horrible experience in my view.
The most disturbing thing about Chapterhouse is the incest angle involving Teg. That's one of the primary reasons why the Bene Gesserit will never be part of the "good guys".
Frank Herbert was using Idaho as a mouthpiece for his own views on homosexuality? I prefer to believe he was writing nuanced characters with views that are not restricted by political correctness to a uniform, unedifying and unrealistic worldview. I do believe that Herbert was trying to make the reader feel uneasy about their own beliefs and presumptions that have been formed both by nature and by interaction with the world. I thought we'd gone beyond good and evil, anyway. Didn't those particular djinns get extinguished by Nietzsche?
I'm not up on Nietzsche.
As for Herbert, he had two sons, Bruce and Brian. Bruce Herbert was gay, and everything I've read about FH's family says that FH did not approve of this. Their relationship was strained and Bruce died in 1993 of pneumonia.
Whether FH inserted his own views of same-sex relationships into God Emperor of Dune via Duncan Idaho's disapproval of the Fish Speakers who engaged in same-sex relations, I don't know for sure. This is one of the things that fans will probably never know, and I'd have to re-read BH's biography of FH to recall what was said of Bruce Herbert.
And of course we can't know how much of Dreamer of Dune was accurate - most was, probably, but then it was written by someone willing to help trash his own father's literary legacy by spinning a story about the Holy Notes That Frank Left that's changed so often that many fans are suspicious about how extensive the notes on Dune 7 really were, and that whatever notes did exist, it's obvious that KJA and BH decided to ignore them in favor of their own version.
But whatever FH's views were, it's a fact that the God Emperor of Dune version of Duncan Idaho disapproved of lesbian relationships among the Fish Speakers. It's made very clear in the novel's text.
One other thing about Duncan in GEoD is that he raised a very valid, relevant point about what Leto had been doing to him throughout all the millennia of bringing him back time after time as a ghola: Not once did Leto ever ask Duncan if he wanted to be brought back to live yet another life, separated from everyone he knew and the world he was familiar with.
Perhaps Duncan Idaho was to Frank Herbert as Tom Bombadil was to J.R.R. Tolkien - the author inserting himself in his own work - whether consciously or unconsciously. I'm not sure that FH wanted to keep churning out Dune novels just to earn a living. He could have felt trapped in his own private Idaho. I wasn't aware of his attitude toward his gay son. It wouldn't surprise me given FH's Catholic upbringing (although lapsed). He might have had unsolicited encounters that formed these views.
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