Dull Humans?

[David.Blue]

I would point to some genuine cultural changes for the better in the last three hundred years. For one thing, slavery became a thing to be abolished--even if the job is not yet complete nor is it something that might never happen again. For another--casual racism has become something a large chunk of the world finds so distasteful bigots have to use code words in common, yet protection against such prejudice is enshrined into law. A far cry from the utterly unashamed presumptions of ethnic superiority and open anti-Semitism that were the norm in 1800 for example. Ditto our attitudes towards the genders. To be sure, we haven't become utopia--but 150 years ago the general attitude towards the poor (for example) was to blame them for being poor, with the "solution" put into effect was to humiliate and punish them. Sadly those attitudes are still with us, but they are anything but universally accepted as wisdom these days.

While I think a few centuries is not enough to really change the fundamental nature of humankind, socially it is a very difficult argument to make that we never "grow up" or mature as a society, with a civilization's members growing up in a better moral environment as a result.

 

[T'Girl]

Tasha's world was "planet Detroit,"

So that's where all the flying cars were built before that market collapsed.

Sisko: "Where are the flying cars? I was told there be flying cars !!!!

 

[Jedi_Master]

Tasha's world was "planet Detroit," they applied evolved progressive thinking to the running of the place to the point that it fell apart.

Nope.

LINK

 

[Mudd]

Tasha's world was "planet Detroit," they applied evolved progressive thinking to the running of the place to the point that it fell apart.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I have been to Detroit, and I can tell you it's not as bad as the media keeps saying it is. From hearing them tell it, you'd think it's just this side of Escape from New York. Pure sensationalistic SHITE.

 

[phredy]

I think the idea of humans in Star Trek being holier-than-thou is slightly exaggerated. The Starfleet officer watching Vina dance in "The Cage" seemed lecherous enough, Kodos panicked at the first sign of crop failure and started phasering people, the Federation is tolerant of exotic forms of death for comparatively minor crimes on Deneb V, etc.

Humans in the future best explained by Kirk in "Star Trek III". With his self-sacrificing steed and trusty companions, Kirk travels to the Underworld, kicks the Devil in the face, steals his giant bird, and spirits his dead friend back to the living world for rebirth. Kirk is still a plain human being with all the faults, but unlike Gilgamesh or Orpheus, future humanity has learned it's lesson and keeps it's eye on the ball.

 

[Timewalker]

You gave 23rd century examples. It's the 24th century when this "we have evolved beyond such pettiness" gets spouted in such a blatantly dishonest and hypocritical way.

Picard's myopic little starship world may be a utopia, but the entire Federation isn't. As he found out, even some Starfleet officers are nothing but crooks.

Would Picard "march into hell" to save any of his officers? He sort of did for Data, but the rest? None that I can remember.

 

[T'Girl]

I have been to Detroit, and I can tell you it's not as bad as the media keeps saying it is.

 

[Jedi_Master]

I have been to Detroit, and I can tell you it's not as bad as the media keeps saying it is.

Incomprehensible graph is incomprehensible.

 

[BigJake]

T'Girl is of course making the point that Detroit's violent crime rates are well above the American national median rates, which is fair enough. But of course hardly makes it comparable to Turkana IV nor redeems her bizarre, obnoxious and offensive initial rhetorical attempt to bring in "Planet Detroit" as a completely non sequitur slam against progressive-something-or-other, as if progressivism is somehow the proven cause of urban decay or social collapse in Detroit or anywhere else.

 

[T'Girl]

But of course hardly makes it comparable to Turkana IV ...

The graph is a direct response to the statement that "it's not as bad as the media keeps saying it is."

Detroit is very much as bad as the media keeps saying it is, it's a shining example of how a city government should not run a major city over the course of decades.

 

[Jedi_Master]

But of course hardly makes it comparable to Turkana IV ...

The graph is a direct response to the statement that "it's not as bad as the media keeps saying it is."

Detroit is very much as bad as the media keeps saying it is, it's a shining example of how a city government should not run a major city over the course of decades.

But even if someone were to accept that premise, there has been no factual information provided to classify Turkana IV as "Planet Detroit - ruined by progressive policies run amuck".

 

[The Doctor]

But of course hardly makes it comparable to Turkana IV ...

The graph is a direct response to the statement that "it's not as bad as the media keeps saying it is."

Detroit is very much as bad as the media keeps saying it is, it's a shining example of how a city government should not run a major city over the course of decades.

But even if someone were to accept that premise, there has been no factual information provided to classify Turkana IV as "Planet Detroit - ruined by progressive policies run amuck".

Additionally, this is not the forum where I can properly eviscerate such ridiculous drivel. Bring your clap-trap into TNZ, T'Girl, so it can be met with appropriate force.

 

[BeatleJWOL]

Why do you think she doesn't post in there?

 

[BigJake]

it's a shining example of how a city government should not run a major city over the course of decades.

From what you've said thus far, I'm not very convinced that you could come up with a convincing diagnosis of what Detroit's genuine problems or the sources of those problems are, or what its proper public profile should be and how media representation compares to that.

 

[BillJ]

T'Girl is of course making the point that Detroit's violent crime rates are well above the American national median rates, which is fair enough. But of course hardly makes it comparable to Turkana IV nor redeems her bizarre, obnoxious and offensive initial rhetorical attempt to bring in "Planet Detroit" as a completely non sequitur slam against progressive-something-or-other, as if progressivism is somehow the proven cause of urban decay or social collapse in Detroit or anywhere else.

+1

 

[BeatleJWOL]

I'm picking up on a theme here.

 

[dub]

I never liked the "evolved" humans of TNG. Any future Trek project is far better off abandoning the concept, which only serves to make the characters unlikeable. TOS, DS9, the classic and new movies got humanity right.

Perhaps that's why FC is my favorite of the TNG films. Picard is a more relatable, human, flawed man in that picture.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

But of course hardly makes it comparable to Turkana IV ...

The graph is a direct response to the statement that "it's not as bad as the media keeps saying it is."

Detroit is very much as bad as the media keeps saying it is, it's a shining example of how a city government should not run a major city over the course of decades.

But even if someone were to accept that premise, there has been no factual information provided to classify Turkana IV as "Planet Detroit - ruined by progressive policies run amuck".

My point is...like I said, I have been to Detroit. I have seen it up close. I'm not denying that there are serious problems there, but it is hardly the free-for-all that is the image propounded by the media. There is still hope in Detroit. It's not total chaos or anarchy. And it's not anywhere near what Tasha's colony was like.

Detroit is not a failed city by any means. It can be fixed.

 

[wulfio]

The problem with Roddenberry's evolved humans of the 24th century, who are so enlightened they can't even argue over the last sandwich on a tray, is they're insufferable sanctimonious assholes.

I like them.