It's possible that 24th century abundance has created a cultural mindset in people so that even when scarcity strikes, they feel capable of picking up the pieces and getting back what they had without slipping into chaos or becoming savages.
Dull Humans?
- Thread starter Bry_Sinclair
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Who said anything about "slipping into chaos" or "becoming savages"? Really? Who did? I just re-read this thread and didn't see that anywhere.
But in the wake of a cultural shock, maybe they'd be a bit more easy to write about in terms of drama and conflict.
But in the wake of a cultural shock, maybe they'd be a bit more easy to write about in terms of drama and conflict.
It's a common attitude whenever this discussion comes up, so I was reacting to that. If we're moving past such an extreme, then that's progress I'd say.
There's number four, in FC Lily showed Picard that his evolved future man was just bullshit. Picard obtained personal satisfation from killing the Borg on the holodeck, it was payback for what they did to him.
Number 5 Quark severely criticized Sisko and his evolved compatriots in...I think it was in the episode in which they first encountered the Jem 'Hadar. Quark tells off Sisko, pointing out the brutality of human history.
But what if they can't? What happens when they realize that their lives will be harsh and austere?
The "evolved" thing is about as realistic as the new communist man.
I recall a comment in a book-if a society tries to go against the human spirit, it will not last.
I recall a comment in a book-if a society tries to go against the human spirit, it will not last.
Quark: "You see, we're nothing like you, we're better."
I do wonder about the perception of Data's sentience within Starfleet following the events of Measure of a Man. Was the judgement generally accepted? Changing the law is one thing, changing peoples ideas and perception is another.
Admiral Haftel thought nothing of simply transferring Data's daughter to a research facility without consulting with Data first.
The majority of Starfleet personnel have never met Data. Lieutenant Commander Hobson, first officer of the USS Sutherland, clearly thought Data wasn't the equal of a biological sentient.
The part I have bolded appears contradictory. Prejudice based on species is racism.
Uh-huh. That's why Tasha Yar had such an idyllic childhood and must have been lying when she talked about hiding from the rape-gangs.
To whatever extent this trope was really present (and it had lots of holes and loopholes, cf. Tasha Yar's background as Timewalker correctly points out) it was to some extent retconned into movie-era Trek, as in The Voyage Home and the attitudes Kirk and company display toward Eighties humanity.
Much like all individuals have a gulf between their ego ideal/self-image and the range of behaviors they actually exhibit.
That's true. You can't force unwanted change on people and will power won't work against your innermost beliefs or subconscious programming, but people do move on from previous behaviors all the time.
Some regions will be filled with corruption and violence and some won't, much like today's world. The point is that something other than corruption and violence can and does exist and a culture's mindset does have a lot to do with that.
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Re: Racism. I was being a little picky. "Racism" in this context refers to different races of homo sapiens, which is itself a dicey idea and reflects the prejudices of our species. But while one never sees anyone in Starfleet react badly to Asians or those of African descent, we do see prejudicial reactions in regards certain species--but we don't really have a readily available word for such. HOnestly, methinks the context makes this crystal clear, but whatever...
Re: Tasha Yar. Here is an example of what might have been a vivid bit of internal drama aboard-ship and possibly throughout the Federation. As mentioned earlier, the frontier colonies are bound to have a very different mind-set from the core worlds. DS9 eventually made a lot of this with the Maquis. But Tasha was a badly written character, whose whole personality in no way gelled with her job nor her given backstory. Imagine Tasha on an away team with Susan Ivanova, Ro Laran, Kira Nerys and Chiana--who would be the one least able to cope and most likely to die? Tasha. Because TNG began with nothing but surface details for the lead characters, just as it had nothing but a surface idea for its entire world. To be sure, the modern versions of Trek got better in that regard.
My essential point is--the "utopian" nature of the Federation offers a challenge in story-telling, but not a surmountable one. Opportunities for personal drama abound, but the emphasis need to be on those opportunities, upon genuine characterization rather than all the new shiny designs of starships and way-cool uniform designs or brand new (but usually very simplistic) alien designs. Because it isn't just the humans that had a tendency to be dull.
Regarding ancient Earth history, historians have commented that border regions tended to be more rustic (and more vigorous?) than the capital. In Star Trek's 24th century, the core of Federation would be comparable to an ancient capital-sophisticated, cosmopolitan, and the closest thing to an utopia yet seen. This core would include founding planets such as Earth and Vulcan, and perhaps a few of the older colonies.
If there is a fair amount of expansion at this point, then there would be a frontier(s). As Star Trek has been compared to the Age of Sail, the frontier regions might be two tiered. Closer to the core would a region comparable to the original 13 colonies (of North America), Australia post Botany Bay, early South Africa.... Beyond would be the remotest outposts-think of the Vikings and Greenland, or the Vikings and Vinland.
If there is a fair amount of expansion at this point, then there would be a frontier(s). As Star Trek has been compared to the Age of Sail, the frontier regions might be two tiered. Closer to the core would a region comparable to the original 13 colonies (of North America), Australia post Botany Bay, early South Africa.... Beyond would be the remotest outposts-think of the Vikings and Greenland, or the Vikings and Vinland.
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It would help if we knew exactly why Tasha's colony failed in the first place. It could be a result of 'evolved' humanity (or lack of same), or simply an incompetent government. Or both.
So that's where all the flying cars were built before that market collapsed.
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Exactly. I doubt we'll ever truly lose that animalistic passion deep inside of us. Compared to our ancestors some 300 years ago, we've evolved in technology, in knowledge, in power, but emotionally we're still the same as we ever were. I don't expect that to truly change so soon.
Plus, the "evolved" humans of the 24th century seemed to have lost much of their humanity. The Prime Directive was a frequent thorn in my side, especially when it was spouted in order to stay one's hand from saving a truly doomed, end of the world is nigh civilization.
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