Spoilers DSC Starships and Technology - Season Two Thread
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Transporter rescue might be difficult as, unlike Ash who was spaced by being beamed off ISS Shenzou which then warped out (and thus was likely pretty stationary), Airiam is blown out of the airlock at a fair velocity. Whilst it might be possible to get a lock, it could require the ship needing to move (impulse engines are down) or too much internal damage might occur in the extended time it would take to lock on... whilst Airiam remains conscious for quite a while, it's possible irreparable injury has already occurred and beaming her back might only prolong her suffering.
Incidentally, we didn’t talk much about the use of the transporter in the shuttle last week on Talos IV - more as a shortcut than anything else. We haven’t seen anything of the like in this era, especially when it may have been useful in times where a TOS shuttle crashed...
Mark
Mark
I gather big shuttles have better gear than little ones. Perhaps the size and capabilities go down from Class A through to Class Z?
Interesting that beaming down to the Talosian den was possible at all, when in "The Cage" we only get the "The Women!" moment more than halfway into Pike's captivity. Supposedly the difference would be in the Talosians volunteering the coordinates and not Spockblocking - the hardware otherwise would be up to penetrating the rock. Yet locating Pike would have been nigh-impossible through that rock, and the best Number One and the rest could do was to spot the emissions of the Talosian generator doodad...
We see big shuttles in TAS. Would the plots have gone differently there if, say, the shuttle of "Slaver Weapon" or "Mudd's Passion" had made use of onboard transporters? Spock, Sulu and Uhura are deprived of access to their craft early on in the first adventure, and Mudd and Chapel have little need for transporting.
Beyond that, it's a question of whether the heroes ought to have deployed a Class C instead of a Class F from the get-go of a TOS adventure.
Timo Saloniemi
Interesting that beaming down to the Talosian den was possible at all, when in "The Cage" we only get the "The Women!" moment more than halfway into Pike's captivity. Supposedly the difference would be in the Talosians volunteering the coordinates and not Spockblocking - the hardware otherwise would be up to penetrating the rock. Yet locating Pike would have been nigh-impossible through that rock, and the best Number One and the rest could do was to spot the emissions of the Talosian generator doodad...
We see big shuttles in TAS. Would the plots have gone differently there if, say, the shuttle of "Slaver Weapon" or "Mudd's Passion" had made use of onboard transporters? Spock, Sulu and Uhura are deprived of access to their craft early on in the first adventure, and Mudd and Chapel have little need for transporting.
Beyond that, it's a question of whether the heroes ought to have deployed a Class C instead of a Class F from the get-go of a TOS adventure.
Timo Saloniemi
Having velocity shouldn't be a problem for transporters at all - targets always have velocity relative to the pad. Having unpredictable, erratic movement might be problematic at times (and might explain the difficulty in the 2009 movie), but this is not one of those cases.
Yet the very idea of a rescue seems to miss the point. The heroes don't want to save Airiam. They want Airiam to die. As long as she is alive, she will strive to kill the heroes and more, and she has shown considerable capacity in getting that done, and zero ability to resist the urge other than through heavily assisted suicide.
Heck, the danger shouldn't be over with her death, either, as Control is still at large. Getting Control out of Airiam (or, more probably, getting the future AI that tries to merge with and boost Control out of her) doesn't seem doable; the attempt could be made, but not at that specific moment when there is no certainly over how exactly Airiam and Control (or the future AI) are sharing thoughts. The audience knows the initial infection did not involve Airiam plugging in to anything physically, so the heroes would be right to assume the very worst.
Timo Saloniemi
Well, we SHOULD assume there's SOMETHING in the coffin they shoot into space (from this week's episode's preview), but for all we know they will be consistent in not wanting a potential cyber bomb back aboard ship and just fill the torpedo casing with her digital photo frame and favorite kadis-kot board. OTOH, there's probably a lot that can be learned from her remains, and examining it in some form of air-gapped (Airiam-gapped?) environment where the wifi is shut off and not networked to anything would be prudent.
Speaking of, we had basically no indication of Airiam's background or nature before this episode. People can debate the story merits of this in the Discovery forum, but a hint could have been in "Brother" when Pike asks everyone to fully name themselves without rank, and she nonetheless says "Lieutenant Commander Airiam". Given that "Airiam" is not a common or even known Earth name (Googling it shows the first non-Trek hit as a World of Warcraft fan name!), one wonders if it's even her original name, or if it's a designation like A.I.R.I.A.M. or somesuch, making her basically the Trek equivalent of Robocop.
More random notes:
- Cornwell's shuttle doesn't have any particular markings other than the Starfleet Command logo - I don't see DSC-06 anywhere it should be even under all that scratched paint. I suspect a different shuttle altogether, but just with the same hot rod livery as DSC-06.
- Is it me or did it take this show a season and a half to finally find some flattering shots of the underside of Discovery?! Most of the "hero" views of this ship send to focus on top-down views, with few of the classic "giant ship passing overhead" shots the franchise uses as stock footage. Here we're treated to an beautiful look at the ship hanging in space, giving us a great impression of her true size. The subsequent sequence of DSC powering up and leaping off is similarly awesome IMO.
- And on that, was Discovery powered down or on silent running at the beginning of this episode, or is she normally lights-off when not moving? Here the nacelles AND deflector (AND Bussard collectors AND ventral saucer dome AND whatever those things are on the leading edge of the secondary hull) all light up blue as the ship starts moving.
- Also, Cornwell knows how to land a shuttle properly, on the centerline of the pad and facing outward. I'm guessing Burnham didn't land using Discovery's tractor beams, or that she skidded on that water that was present last week (and which is absent now).
- Also also, the shuttlebay lights are not uniform. Last week there were few of the flashy orange lights, instead depending on some of the weird bendy straw lights we've seen in various episodes and locations. Here, it's basically just the flashy type, presumably popping up from the deck where needed (apparently not needed last week).
- This is my last post about Discovery leaving her back door open, even in perilous situations where closing it makes more sense. I'll now point out when it's CLOSED, which seems to be the blue moon event, VFX-wise.
- I have no idea how Tri-D chess is played, even though it's apparently a real thing in some capacity (see wiki). Still, I know enough to know that the additional mini-platforms in this example were not placed nearly as randomly as they've been seen in other appearances in the franchise. OTOH, when Burnham lugs it out of her closet, the mini-platforms aren't even there.
- As Airiam goes all Terminator on Burnham and Nhan, she rips only one of the latter's breathing implants out of her face before she's tossed across the room. A couple of shots later though, both are missing. When did she lose the other one? Would they not be subject to random bumps dislodging them? And moreover, why couldn't Nhan just activate her space suit helmet and breather her native atmospheric mix that way? We know it's the suit she brought / replicated from Enterprise, it would make some sense for it to provide her with air she can breathe in addition to Federation standard...
- In the climactic scene as Airiam implores Burnham to kill her, basically everyone not at Conn/Ops on the bridge leaves their station to stand dramatically in witness of her death. That services the story beat admirably, but they ARE in an alert situation here. Being shot at or no, you'd think that for what's about to happen, people should be at their stations in anticipation of the NEXT thing going wrong, especially knowing that there is a homicidal AI active in proximity, armed with not-so-concealed mines and everything.
- Timo has pointed out that the DSC model has been tweaked a little bit as we now see three lit windows above and behind the bridge, to better match the three windows of Pike's ready room / conference room people use when he's not there. This MAY be the tewak we sorta saw obliquely in "new Eden". The windows still don't match the set, as on the model there's one larger window flanked by two smaller ones; I'd almost prefer the original's five identical windows with the flanking ones blacked out, which was seen as early as the schematics of the ship in the opening credits in "The Vulcan Hello" premiere. Doing so would still not match the set (which extends laterally to where those extra windows should be) but would fit the physical set better IMO.
Mark
Speaking of, we had basically no indication of Airiam's background or nature before this episode. People can debate the story merits of this in the Discovery forum, but a hint could have been in "Brother" when Pike asks everyone to fully name themselves without rank, and she nonetheless says "Lieutenant Commander Airiam". Given that "Airiam" is not a common or even known Earth name (Googling it shows the first non-Trek hit as a World of Warcraft fan name!), one wonders if it's even her original name, or if it's a designation like A.I.R.I.A.M. or somesuch, making her basically the Trek equivalent of Robocop.
More random notes:
- Cornwell's shuttle doesn't have any particular markings other than the Starfleet Command logo - I don't see DSC-06 anywhere it should be even under all that scratched paint. I suspect a different shuttle altogether, but just with the same hot rod livery as DSC-06.
- Is it me or did it take this show a season and a half to finally find some flattering shots of the underside of Discovery?! Most of the "hero" views of this ship send to focus on top-down views, with few of the classic "giant ship passing overhead" shots the franchise uses as stock footage. Here we're treated to an beautiful look at the ship hanging in space, giving us a great impression of her true size. The subsequent sequence of DSC powering up and leaping off is similarly awesome IMO.
- And on that, was Discovery powered down or on silent running at the beginning of this episode, or is she normally lights-off when not moving? Here the nacelles AND deflector (AND Bussard collectors AND ventral saucer dome AND whatever those things are on the leading edge of the secondary hull) all light up blue as the ship starts moving.
- Also, Cornwell knows how to land a shuttle properly, on the centerline of the pad and facing outward. I'm guessing Burnham didn't land using Discovery's tractor beams, or that she skidded on that water that was present last week (and which is absent now).
- Also also, the shuttlebay lights are not uniform. Last week there were few of the flashy orange lights, instead depending on some of the weird bendy straw lights we've seen in various episodes and locations. Here, it's basically just the flashy type, presumably popping up from the deck where needed (apparently not needed last week).
- This is my last post about Discovery leaving her back door open, even in perilous situations where closing it makes more sense. I'll now point out when it's CLOSED, which seems to be the blue moon event, VFX-wise.
- I have no idea how Tri-D chess is played, even though it's apparently a real thing in some capacity (see wiki). Still, I know enough to know that the additional mini-platforms in this example were not placed nearly as randomly as they've been seen in other appearances in the franchise. OTOH, when Burnham lugs it out of her closet, the mini-platforms aren't even there.
- As Airiam goes all Terminator on Burnham and Nhan, she rips only one of the latter's breathing implants out of her face before she's tossed across the room. A couple of shots later though, both are missing. When did she lose the other one? Would they not be subject to random bumps dislodging them? And moreover, why couldn't Nhan just activate her space suit helmet and breather her native atmospheric mix that way? We know it's the suit she brought / replicated from Enterprise, it would make some sense for it to provide her with air she can breathe in addition to Federation standard...
- In the climactic scene as Airiam implores Burnham to kill her, basically everyone not at Conn/Ops on the bridge leaves their station to stand dramatically in witness of her death. That services the story beat admirably, but they ARE in an alert situation here. Being shot at or no, you'd think that for what's about to happen, people should be at their stations in anticipation of the NEXT thing going wrong, especially knowing that there is a homicidal AI active in proximity, armed with not-so-concealed mines and everything.
- Timo has pointed out that the DSC model has been tweaked a little bit as we now see three lit windows above and behind the bridge, to better match the three windows of Pike's ready room / conference room people use when he's not there. This MAY be the tewak we sorta saw obliquely in "new Eden". The windows still don't match the set, as on the model there's one larger window flanked by two smaller ones; I'd almost prefer the original's five identical windows with the flanking ones blacked out, which was seen as early as the schematics of the ship in the opening credits in "The Vulcan Hello" premiere. Doing so would still not match the set (which extends laterally to where those extra windows should be) but would fit the physical set better IMO.
Mark
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Addendum - last week Tilly mentions that they run a level 3 diagnostic on the spore drive every ten hours. This makes this the earliest chronological appearance of the term, as it was introduced in the TNG era and the NX-01 Enterprise was without any such reference during its run:
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Diagnostic_mode
Mark
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Diagnostic_mode
Mark
Nice to see that DSC is carrying on the tradition started in ENT of making a show that's more of a prequel to TNG than it ever was to TOS.
To be fair, I'd rather have level 3 diagnostics than time warps, lithium crystals and Vulcanians. Adhering fervently to canon can oft-times prove a sticky wicket retroactively.
Oh for sure. And also Scotty looped the Jenol@n's transporter into a Level 4 diagnostic to put himself on hold for 70 years, so the concept of regulated diagnostic types existed in at least the early 2290s. Peopel in ENT were doing generic diagnostics without numbers, so there's precedent in some sense.
Mark
Mark
It might also be learned, given time, whether Airiam was still dangerous dead. Her death was necessary to stop her from interfacing with Control through the airlock; it no doubt also proved sufficient (or else she wouldn't have suggested the course of action, and wouldn't have needed to fiddle with airlock consoles in the first place). It might prove sufficient in negating the threat for good, too. But only given time, which the heroes now have, Control being suspiciously passive at the conclusion of the ep.
Which makes me wonder if Control weren't passive all the time, a mere victim of outside attack by the agent introduced by Airiam.
"Mairia" backwards, as she feels her whole life was turned upside down? I gather her personality was somewhat affected by they apparent brain prosthetics; the stilted self-introduction might be part of that.
Ah, right. My bad. I might speculate it's the same deal as with the Vulcan runabouts: the single design has proven so successful that these things are found everywhere and easily accessed for random errands.
At the very least we get the opportunity to stare at her secondary hull bow features in proper lighting. I'm still sort of hoping the torpedo tubes would be there somewhere.
I can buy powered down, there also being a need for thorough diagnostics of the main power system which apparently is crucial to the spore drive as well. Do we see the series of blinking formation lights in other contexts, including the Shenzhou style double red beacons on the underbelly?
We might argue the mixture is poisonous to humans, Vulcans etc. and cannot be pumped to the ambient air in any circumstances: a suit capable of producing it would be a deadly hazard, so at the very least the authority to produce the mix would be behind lock and key that Nhan couldn't easily circumvent. Instead, she delivers the vital poison in small droplets or whatnot from those injectors, in a more environmentally friendly manner.
Yup. The very passivity of Control in that situation rather suggests it wasn't the threat of the day - Airiam's head contents were.
I can appreciate compressed portrayal of space battles. Here the visual convention borders on the ridiculous, though: how is there even space for all the maneuvers Detmer is told to pull off? The original safe route revealed by Cornwell seems to include legs so short that the ship is basically pivoting more than she's translating. Yet the greater concern is the very need to do the maneuvers. How does it help our heroes that they sail closer to the station than the point where they drop out of warp? The place must already be well within transporter and weapons range. Just beam in (or send a shuttle in), and provide fire cover from a tactically appropriate distance.
Timo Saloniemi
A anti-technology wave (or just a general purge of Control infected technologies) could easily lead to the more primitive seeming F-type Shuttle Craft seen in TOS. Technology starting to make a comeback by the 2270s and more so by the 2280s and 2290s with the Great Experiment and the like.
But it would leave the 2260s are a relative "dark age" of computer technology for Starfleet. The M-5 being something like a prototype replacement for the Control-like systems, but it failed for other reasons.
The general purge could also be what drove Section 31 underground, so that in a hundred years, most records of their existence have been wiped (by Section 31), and the "dark age" is looked on more like a golden age of exploration with Kirk's Five Year Mission being the highlight. The relatively high point taking attention away from the low point of the late 2250s. Barely, if ever, mentioned in history classes. One would need to take a class focused on the period to even get an idea of what happened. (for reference, from in the US, 8th grade US History is suppose to cover into the Reconstruction era in the 1870s, but most teacher spent too much time on the Civil War that by the year end with the students are getting to 1865 and more or less no aftermath of the war is presented after Lincoln's assassination. In High School, US History is suppose to pick up from Reconstruction and go to the Present Day. My teacher started in the 1920s as a lead in to the Great Depression and World War II. We spent a lot of time between 1940 and 1970, and kind of rushed to the Present from the end of the Vietnam War (the Present at that time was the mid-1990s). So I didn't get any US History between 1865 and pretty much 1925 until I took another History course for my degree in College. That's a large gap)
But it would leave the 2260s are a relative "dark age" of computer technology for Starfleet. The M-5 being something like a prototype replacement for the Control-like systems, but it failed for other reasons.
The general purge could also be what drove Section 31 underground, so that in a hundred years, most records of their existence have been wiped (by Section 31), and the "dark age" is looked on more like a golden age of exploration with Kirk's Five Year Mission being the highlight. The relatively high point taking attention away from the low point of the late 2250s. Barely, if ever, mentioned in history classes. One would need to take a class focused on the period to even get an idea of what happened. (for reference, from in the US, 8th grade US History is suppose to cover into the Reconstruction era in the 1870s, but most teacher spent too much time on the Civil War that by the year end with the students are getting to 1865 and more or less no aftermath of the war is presented after Lincoln's assassination. In High School, US History is suppose to pick up from Reconstruction and go to the Present Day. My teacher started in the 1920s as a lead in to the Great Depression and World War II. We spent a lot of time between 1940 and 1970, and kind of rushed to the Present from the end of the Vietnam War (the Present at that time was the mid-1990s). So I didn't get any US History between 1865 and pretty much 1925 until I took another History course for my degree in College. That's a large gap)
I guess that could provide some additional shading to Starfleet offering up a whole starship to test Daystrom's quixotic and vain quarter-century attempt to recapture his duotronics breakthrough in his twenties.
Nice re-uses of existing assets in "The Red Angel":
- Cornwell's office is the ready room set, re-arranged as a three-wall and swapping the turbolift exit for a standard corridor segment.
- The gym is the shuttlebay wall, swapping the door for a bright white... light fixture? And building a bit more wall out from what we normally see as a CG set extension.
- The bendy straw lights have been repurposed as angel dreamcatchers, and the Shenzhou's lateral transporter array dishes are seen for the first time outside of a transporter room, but not (?) for transporter-ish purposes.
- Lt. Nilsson is promoted to Airiam's bridge position.
Mark
- Cornwell's office is the ready room set, re-arranged as a three-wall and swapping the turbolift exit for a standard corridor segment.
- The gym is the shuttlebay wall, swapping the door for a bright white... light fixture? And building a bit more wall out from what we normally see as a CG set extension.
- The bendy straw lights have been repurposed as angel dreamcatchers, and the Shenzhou's lateral transporter array dishes are seen for the first time outside of a transporter room, but not (?) for transporter-ish purposes.
- Lt. Nilsson is promoted to Airiam's bridge position.
Mark
Luckily nothing here immediately contradicts TNG/DS9 regarding wormholes - the micro-wormholes created by the Red Angel tech are unstable and require an anchoring beam to keep open and "tether" the Angel to their origin point. So the Bajoran wormhole is still the first known one in existence, and Lenora Khan's experiments can still be seen as novel since she's trying to make an artificial stable wormhole. And presumably without needing a rare(?) time crystal.
I'm assuming Michael will use the suit at some point, explaining why Airiam's files had her brainwave patterns recorded for it, rather than her mother's. And that the suit has already been upgraded with some future tech such as the revival beam.
I'm assuming Michael will use the suit at some point, explaining why Airiam's files had her brainwave patterns recorded for it, rather than her mother's. And that the suit has already been upgraded with some future tech such as the revival beam.
The term "micro wormhole" was used first in VOY "Pathfinder" as how Barclay establishes comms with the gang. THAT one was so micro (or far away) that they didn't bother using an effects shot for it; here, it's so big and flashy it may as well be a full-size one you can drive your starship-sized plot device through.
Mark
Mark
Point of order - Voyager first encountered a micro-wormhole years earlier in the ep where they contact the Romulan guy who turns out to be twenty years in the past.
Which. neatly, also establishes that wormholes can be used for time travel, as per this ep.
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