DS9 = WORST Star Trek Series EVER

[Tidus79001]

I just had a flick through the whole thread and I see a lot of people respectfully disagreeing with you. Almost no rudeness from them at all.

So the thread was started with the express intent of riling people up, and all you got were reasonable responses. I guess you've really proven today who is (in your words) "dismissive and rude".

Turn about is fair play.

Yeah you are right it was baiting. I see many on the Trek BBS bash Voyager, and it fans. Those people are often intolerant, dismissisve, and rude to Voyager fan (especially the Bring Back Janeyway fans). This thread for me was started & intended to be turn about is fair play.

If you're going to start threads with the express intent to troll,

Wasn't trolling. You DS9'ers can't stand a debate regarding the the merits for the quality of the DS9.

Boo Hoo your feelings are hurt because I don't like DS9, and because I am debating the merits for the quality of the show. Just expressing my opinion. Like I have never seen my favorite show bashed before. Like I said turn about is fair play.

your lifespan on this board will be measured with a stopwatch.

Now I am quaking in my boots.

Oh, EEEEEEEEKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK! I am scared now!

Just like Janeway said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yx5mAd8wiNU

"You know, I'm really easy to get along with most of the time, but I don't like bullies and I don't like threats, and I don't like 'you'.

 

[Silvercrest]

Baiting other posters is the definition of trolling. You've stated your intention to bait others, and to be intolerant, dismissive, and rude, merely because "turnabout is fair play."

Good luck with that. If you get warned for it, don't say you weren't warned.

...wait, that's not right.

 

[Tidus79001]

Baiting other posters is the definition of trolling. You've stated your intention to bait others, and to be intolerant, dismissive, and rude, merely because "turnabout is fair play."

Good luck with that. If you get warned for it, don't say you weren't warned.

...wait, that's not right.

I will speak my opinion anytime I want. I don't back down to bullies who try to get me to censor myself, or who try to shame me from posting my thoughts, or those that make any sort of threats to me.

You & the trolls on here aren't my first that I have dealt with, and you certainly won't be the last. This "Good Ol' Boys Club" that is here on the Trek BBS of the intolerant, are dismissive, rude, and condescending doesn't impress me in the least bit, nor does it intimidate me at all.

 

[DS9 Gal AZ]

It seems the OP justs get off on upsetting people. Now, to be fair, I myself went into the Voyager forum and posted a thread entitled "Voyager's main problems." However, I don't think I ever demonstrated the kind of disrespect the OP has shown, nor was my intention to piss off Voyager fans or say that the show was complete crap. I hoped to start an honest discussion of its flaws. I watched the series in its entirety during its initial run, and I enjoyed it, but still felt it had a lot of problems.

DS9 was always my favorite Trek. I don't mind if people criticize or say it's just not for them; but my hackles are raised when someone just flat-out attacks the show, especially when they've barely watched any of it. For example, I might have a feeling that ENT was not a great show, but I'm not really gonna talk about it, because I've only caught an episode or two, so I can't really fairly judge the quality of the show as a whole. This really is borderline trolling.

I respect that you don't like it, and never said told anyone that they shouldn't watch it. I am just debating the merits for the quality of the show.

I don't feel that you are simply debating the merits of the show. You are just dismissing it as crap when you've only seen a few episodes. That is not debate, that is bashing. If you're going to bash, at least own what you're doing. Don't pretend you're trying to start a respectful and thoughtful discussion. Your "turnabout is fair play" comment is very telling.

intolerant, are dismissive, rude, and condescending

Sounds to me like you're describing yourself more than anyone on this board.

 

[Ian Keldon]

They had no ship, and just sat on a space station.

Which meant that they had to face the consequences of their actions, something other Trek's didn't have to do by and large.

Sitting of the Station week after week was big turn off.

On the contrary, it was the show's biggest strength, esp early on before they started in with the conflict with the Dominion. Remaining in one place forced the writers to look to the characters and their circumstances for plot and drama as they didn't have the crutch of "planet of the [adjective] aliens of the week" to lean on.

That worked out so well for the series that by season 3 they added the Defiant to help out the serious flagging DS9 series.

Others have already addressed this.

DS9 was so awful it was the first & only Star Trek series that hired an actor from a previous series (Michael Dorn) to reprise their character role (Worf) as permanent cast member addition.

Wrong.

I was shocked that the writers felt that a Star Trek show didn’t need a real ship for exploration & wasn’t surprised that by season 3 they introduced the Defiant as a ship permanently assigned to Deep Space Nine (the runabout idea was a really seemed like someone’s idea of a bad joke since it really wasn’t designed for long range deep space exploration nor was it capable of real defense of the space station).

They did plenty of exploring even prior to the Defiant if you understand that Trek was NEVER about "planet of the week", but about using the Trek environment to explore the human condition. All of the interesting visuals and costumes and settings were minor elements designed to entertain the eye while the story fed the brain.

Which isn't to say that each and every ep was "deep thought" by any stretch of the imagination (then or now). Sometimes they took a break and just had a little fun. Sometimes the story didn't turn out as well in execution as it may have looked on paper.

DS9 was just too painful to watch & Star Trek in name only.

Nope. It was probably the MOST faithful to the true spirit of Trek of all the modern serieses.

Voyager was the first series since the Original Series to really recap the Star Trek them of exploration of the unknown, and true sense of adventure

In a shallow, superficial way that was easily (and promptly) dismissed after each ep.

(I was hooked before the series premiere episode "Caretaker" had finished airing).

"Caretaker" had me going right up until the last few minutes when Janeway declared they would make it home as "one crew, a Starfleet crew". I knew right then that they would only pay lip service to many of the plot threads they had started to set up earlier.

The writers (thanks to studio and network meddling) had to turn their back on their own basic premises time after time (such as the overuse of the infamous "reset button".

What Voyager COULD have been was what we got with the Battlestar Galactica remake with some outside exploration thrown in for good measure.

What Voyager actually turned out to be was "TNG-lite", only with less cast chemistry.

 

[Eckauskas]

DS9 certainly wasn't the worst of the series, but the TNG bashing is ridiculous.

 

[Ian Keldon]

, bringing in Worf was a ratings stunt that attempted to shore up DS9's flagging ratings, there's no point in denying that which is true. However, the introduction of Seven of Nine was the exact same thing, a ratings stunt designed to shore up Voyager's flagging ratings. Both stunts were ultimately a failure as the ratings for both shows continued to slide, but I believe that both stunts were dramatically successful.

Worf and the Klingons were interesting...Seven of Sixty-Nine...I mean Seven of Nine was not, and she accelerated the demise of the Borg as a creditable threat.

 

[Tidus79001]

What Voyager actually turned out to be was "TNG-lite", only with less cast chemistry.

I am glad that Voyager was "TNG-lite" since TNG is "Star Trek(TOS)-lite".

 

[RyuRoots]

What Voyager actually turned out to be was "TNG-lite", only with less cast chemistry.

I am glad that Voyager was "TNG-lite" since TNG is "Star Trek(TOS)-lite".

...wait, I don't understand. I thought you were FOR Voyager. ...but you're calling it a watered-down version of something that was already watered-down.

 

[Tidus79001]

, bringing in Worf was a ratings stunt that attempted to shore up DS9's flagging ratings, there's no point in denying that which is true. However, the introduction of Seven of Nine was the exact same thing, a ratings stunt designed to shore up Voyager's flagging ratings. Both stunts were ultimately a failure as the ratings for both shows continued to slide, but I believe that both stunts were dramatically successful.

Worf and the Klingons were interesting...Seven of Sixty-Nine...I mean Seven of Nine was not, and she accelerated the demise of the Borg as a creditable threat.

I never found Worf to be interesting. A brooding person with a perpetual scowl, and bad attitude isn't interesting to me.

Seven of Nine was a awesome character who is as memorable as Spock. I see no demise of the Borg as a credible threat. New defenses & technologies came & made the Borg less of a threat, and Seven of Nine just assisted in that process of giving Starfleet a better understanding of the Borg that allowed Starfleet to faster develop new strategies, and technology to better fight the Borg.

TNG changed the Borg with the introduction of the Borg Queen so go blame them for the change that you find unwelcome. Voyager did a awesome job of giving the Borg a real story, depth, backstory, and history. If the Borg were to remain static villians forever it would be boring before too long since it would be the same everytime, and that would become contrived very shortly since there would have never been any improvement on defense against them (oh looks its the Borg...Been there done that...wake me up once they finish assimilating us...ZZZZZZZZZ).

 

[Tidus79001]

What Voyager actually turned out to be was "TNG-lite", only with less cast chemistry.

I am glad that Voyager was "TNG-lite" since TNG is "Star Trek(TOS)-lite".

...wait, I don't understand. I thought you were FOR Voyager. ...but you're calling it a watered-down version of something that was already watered-down.

No I am saying that TNG isn't TOS. Voyager was the most similar to the TOS. Voyager was a return the the classic Trek formula. The producers ever said so:

Michael Piller who was one of the three executive producers of Voyager made this statement in the "Braving The Unknown" bonus feature that was included with the Voyager Season 1 DVD’s:

"We made it very clear that what appealed to us about that idea was that it took us back to the basics of Roddenberry's original idea that it’s a group of people in a ship alone in the unknown facing who knows what…”

“…the idea really was to go back and challenge ourselves as writers, to come up with the kind of material and face the kind of challenges that Roddenberry had to face when he created the original Star Trek”

Jeri Taylor also said about the following about creation of Voyager on the "Braving The Unknown" bonus feature:

“We felt the need to create an avenue for new and fresh storytelling. We are forced into creating a new universe. We have to come up with new aliens, we have to come up with new situations, and this makes it a great challenge for us, but we really felt it was the way to be the truest to the ideals of star Trek”

 

[RyuRoots]

Maybe that's what you meant, but it isn't what you said. Adding the -lite suffix is generally considered to be a bad thing, for future reference.

 

[zar]

I respect your choice of favorite Trek series. I am just debating the merits for the quality of the show.

Repeating something over and over again does not make it true.

I personally don't care what you think. If people like DS9 then fine. Your doubts about me stating that is how I feel are completely & totally irrelevant to me.

I believe CorporalClegg's point was that saying you're debating over and over doesn't qualify as debating. No one is doubting that your opinions are genuine, but what you have been doing here is not a "debate" in any sense of the word.

I am not going to bother any further debate on that topic. The producers of Voyager talked specifically about Tom Paris, and why they didn't use him as the same character. This is on a special feature interview that is on the Voyager DVD's. Case closed.

No one has denied this. But if not for those reasons, they would have used Nick Locarno. So why doesn't that decision mean Voyager was a failure? For the umpteenth time, why is importing a character from a previous series a bad thing? You still haven't answered this!

 

[Ian Keldon]

I generally dislike ENT, but with it on Netflix now, I am going to try and give it a second chance. I stopped watching it during Season 2 and have caught random bits of Season 3 (where it seemed to be getting better), but I think I need to give it another shot.

It's worth doing. I did the same thing and now I really like the show. Your mileage may vary, but it's worth the effort.

Agreed.

Season 4, especially, is just about the best modern Trek could possibly be, and I say that as a huge fan of DS9's last 3 seasons.

 

[Tosk]

I guess you've really proven today who is (in your words) "dismissive and rude".

Turn about is fair play.

I'm no longer sure what it is you're trying to prove (Unless it's "All DS9 fans are rude, so I will be rude too"), so I'll just bid you a good day and be on my way.

Cheers.

 

[Tidus79001]

I generally dislike ENT, but with it on Netflix now, I am going to try and give it a second chance. I stopped watching it during Season 2 and have caught random bits of Season 3 (where it seemed to be getting better), but I think I need to give it another shot.

It's worth doing. I did the same thing and now I really like the show. Your mileage may vary, but it's worth the effort.

Agreed.

Season 4, especially, is just about the best modern Trek could possibly be, and I say that as a huge fan of DS9's last 3 seasons.

I know exactly how you feel about Enterprise. I also couldn't stand Enterprise when I first saw it. I tried watching it in the 1st & 2nd seasons, but didn't get interested. I then tried again in the 3rd season, and liked it & watched it through until the end of the series, and I was disappointed when they canceled it (it deserved to have it 7 seasons & was robbed of its legacy by not getting its last 3 seasons). I then went back, and watched it all the way through from season 1 & found that it wasn't a bad show at all (actually it was quite a good show) & that I had just never given it a fair chance.

I have read the Enterpise books, that have & continue to focus on the Romulan War & found these books to be extremely well written. Reading these books make me realize how much we lost out on when they cancelled Enterprise & cut short by 3 years. The final 2 seasons of Enterprise were quite good in my opinion. These books really show that there really were so many good stories left to be told about the Enterprise NX-02 & Archer's crew.

By season 3 it was too little too late to reverse the damage that had been done, and I am disappointed that I contributed to the demise of the show, and to the Star Trek television franchise.

I would have really enjoyed seeing the "Romulan War" storyline that is in the books be done as episodes during the final 3 seasons that were cut short from Enterprise.

That is why I have been giving DS9 the chance I never gave it by watching it on Netflix. I have started this previously in this post, but no on seems to have taken notice of that. So far it has yet to engage me, but that likely could change, and I actually fully expect that change. I have found that where Trek is involved in regards to myself that resistance is futile.

 

[Ian Keldon]

I never found Worf to be interesting. A brooding person with a perpetual scowl, and bad attitude isn't interesting to me.

You must be referring to someone else, because that was not Worf.

Seven of Nine was a awesome character who is as memorable as Spock.

I see no demise of the Borg as a credible threat. New defenses & technologies came & made the Borg less of a threat, and Seven of Nine just assisted in that process of giving Starfleet a better understanding of the Borg that allowed Starfleet to faster develop new strategies, and technology to better fight the Borg.

Blah blah blablablahblah...

TNG changed the Borg with the introduction of the Borg Queen so go blame them for the change that you find unwelcome. Voyager did a awesome job of giving the Borg a real story, depth, backstory, and history.

If the Borg were to remain static villians forever it would be boring before too long since it would be the same everytime, and that would become contrived very shortly since there would have never been any improvement on defense against them (oh looks its the Borg...Been there done that...wake me up once they finish assimilating us...ZZZZZZZZZ).

Which was pretty much what we were left with by the time they got done.

 

[Tidus79001]

Lets see if anyone actually decides to comment on my last post prior to this one If they do comment can they resist attacking me? Are you going to attack me again for my giving those Star Trek series a second chance?

 

[CorporalClegg]

Wasn't trolling. You DS9'ers can't stand a debate regarding the the merits for the quality of the DS9.

Except you have yet to make any post that incites, promotes, or encourages debate.

You have not given a single definitive reason why you don't like a show of which you admit to have only seen a few episodes.

You have not given one critique or cited a single example of the what you thought was poor quality television.

You just said "It stinks!" like a four year old knocking his bowl of Cheerios on to the floor.

And then made of list of random incidents that had to do with network politics that have absolutely no bearing on a show's quality. Then, when people call you out on it you start the insults. That, Sir, is not a debate. So please stop labeling it as such.

Oh, EEEEEEEEKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK! I am scared now!

You & the trolls on here aren't my first that I have dealt with, and you certainly won't be the last. This "Good Ol' Boys Club" that is here on the Trek BBS of the intolerant, are dismissive, rude, and condescending doesn't impress me in the least bit, nor does it intimidate me at all.

Please, please come to TNZ. Step up to the plate, son.

I never found Worf to be interesting. A brooding person with a perpetual scowl, and bad attitude isn't interesting to me.

And the DS9 writers managed to turn a boring, lifeless monosyllabic book muncher into a interesting, three dimensional character and his popularity sky rocketed.

Hey, I know, you should watch DS9.

Seven of Nine was a awesome character who is as memorable as Spock.

I think this is the single largest dose of hyperbole ever injected into the TBBS. Well done, Sir.

I see no demise of the Borg as a credible threat. New defenses & technologies came & made the Borg less of a threat, and Seven of Nine just assisted in that process of giving Starfleet a better understanding of the Borg that allowed Starfleet to faster develop new strategies, and technology to better fight the Borg.

TNG changed the Borg with the introduction of the Borg Queen so go blame them for the change that you find unwelcome. Voyager did a awesome job of giving the Borg a real story, depth, backstory, and history. If the Borg were to remain static villians forever it would be boring before too long since it would be the same everytime, and that would become contrived very shortly since there would have never been any improvement on defense against them (oh looks its the Borg...Been there done that...wake me up once they finish assimilating us...ZZZZZZZZZ).

So you like your villains to be cuddly, push-over bunnies who the heroes can faceroll with ease? What a boring life you must lead.

Actually, it explains a lot.

 

[Sjaddix]

Of course seven of nine was memorable she was fetish fuel. The Borg though suffer from the same problem all foes face diminishing returns, they can never win so the more they lose the worse it gets. Plus there your only foe that can show up any time at any place in large numbers. Other foes have to be subtle and plot and plan first